P10 and P5 discontinued?


#1

Over at the Audio Afficionado site there’s an announcement that the P5 & P10 are now discontinued and being replaced in April by DSP 5 & 10 models. True? Paul’s blog post the other day about the P20 seemed to say that applying its new circuitry design to the 5 & 10 were in the planning stages, not already realized. If there are new models already being readied, will there be an upgrade path of any kind?


#2

It is true and this time, unfortunately, there will not be an upgrade path. We have to replace all the internals to make the new ones and that leaves only the chassis the same.


#3

:frowning:

Greg in Mississippi


#4

Bear in mind that PSA does have a very generous trade-in policy.


#5

Yes it does, so I read, although I’ve no experience with the program or seen figures. I’m also aware that the price increases for the new P5 and P10 are going to be 42% and 50%, respectively, according to those posted by the PS Audio forum moderator at Audio Afficionado ($4999 and $7499).


#6

So trading in an existing P5 and upgrading to the new P5 DSD will cost ~$3500, assuming a 30% trade in. That’s like buying the old P5 all over again.

Ouch! I’ll have to wait and assess the reviews to see if I can make that kind of investment.


#7

Another way to look at it is that the current/old P5 is now the most affordable way to get regenerated power for your system…while retaining upgrade options in the future. I just did this and I am loving the improvements.


#8

Yes, that’s how I have to see it, with the caveat that as the market for P5-II or P10-II eventually improves, that for P5-I’s will likely decline. It’s also a consideration of weight. For some reason, I’ve been thinking that the new P10 will weigh less than the current 73 lbs, but that may be my confusing it with something else I saw (wouldn’t be the first time).


#9

FYI: Brand new, existing model, P10s are going to $3K. Deals aren’t that hard to find.


#10

Relevance?


#11

Maybe at that price an existing P10 is better then a new P5. Ignore if I offended you with an irrelevant comment.


#12

At the prices we are discussing I think an existing P10 is better than a new P10. I just can’t justify the extra $$$ for whatever the percentage increase in SQ will be. Just my two cents.


#13

Used P10’s are coming down in price considerably and I imagine it will even get better. It is a thought. But then what I can get for the P5 will also go in the same direction. One key point of upgrading in my thinking is to get the newer design.


#14

After the initial shock of seeing those prices for the new P5/P10 I’m rethinking my next move. I had a P500 that worked for me, but it died a couple fo months ago so I need a replacement sooner than I thought. I was waiting for the new models, might as well get the latest and greatest, but those prices are scaring me. Can Paul give a run down of how these new models are an improvement over the “old” models? Sure seems like a new or almost new P10 would be as good as a new P5 for less money. Also not sure how much my P500 is worth on a trade in given it is non-functional (but could be fixed).


#15

Even if an existing P10 is as good as a new P5 (I doubt it given the extensive complete redesign and new method of current regeneration), a used P10 is a great bang/buck unlikely to be surpassed by paying full price for a new P5. The law of diminishing returns always quickly reveals itself.


#16

Elk…I couldn’t agree more.


#17
stevem2 said

Bear in mind that PSA does have a very generous trade-in policy.


Only applies, in my experience, to the US market with the direct sales from PS Audio. In the UK and, no doubt, other territories, the country’s distributor will plead poverty and refuse to match Paul’s generous trade-in offer…

#18

Elk, I totally agree, especially that I now know the price! My only hesitation is Paul hasn’t said a whole lot about the “DSD engine” that is the main improvement. Hard to believe there is that much more to be gained, but we’ve been surprised previously. The P20 page doesn’t provide a whole lot of information either.

One other observation, the P5 is now out of stock at PSAudio.com.


#19

I expect a significant decrease in impedance, as well as a magnitude improvement in lower output THD, together with a greater ability to address higher levels of incoming THD. And still greater efficiency.

Other guesses?


#20

Look, folks, I’ve got to believe PS Audio set the prices for the new P5 and P10 units after a great deal of consideration. Improving upon the already great P5/P10 very likely put them in a place where the next quantum of performance came at significant cost. So I am sure that their new price point reflects their additional manufacturing cost, and what they believe their customer base will be willing to spend.

I’m sure they also gave consideration to how to support current P5/P10 customers, before concluding that they could not provide an upgrade path.

Which leaves us, as current P5/P10 customers, to decide what our best path forward is. Remember, we don’t have to do anything. Our current units are already excellent However, we’re audiophiles, and when a new version of something we own comes out, we want to upgrade, and when no upgrade path is offered, it does leave a sour taste in the mouth.

But c’est la vie. Just do what you have to do. I have no quarrel or complaints.