Great… I wonder if that DC is what killed my $14k McIntosh C1100. Let’s see what the repair shop says.
Yeah all new gear, $27.5k MSRP in one purchase and $20k of it doesn’t work. I don’t know in what world this is acceptable @Paul. This is going beyond reasonable the time I spent troubleshooting faulty PS Audio products and returning 100lb items to FedEx.
How did you get on with a refund request on that DOA P20? It is written in the PS Audio warranty conditions that they have the discretion to offer a refund, even for dealer sale.
If you get your money back have a look at a Shunyata Denali 6000T. There is a discounted “open box” one for sale on Music Direct now. $1,000 off MSRP. I’d buy it myself if it was 240V compatible. Alas, it’s not.
Shunyata have a lifetime product warranty. They obviously have a lot of confidence in the performance, build quality and reliability of their products. You also get direct access to their CEO via the Audioshark forum in much the same way we have direct access to our beloved leader here.
I’ve got a hunch you need to add a C1100 repair to that equation as well.
Man this sucks, I somewhat agree that PSA has QC issues, as I’ve gone through a couple exchanges myself, but it mostly cosmetics.
I think you should try using P15 to see if the hum is still there, if P15 is quite then it is obvious. I realized that it an extreme inconvenience, but worth a try.
Good luck with resolving the problem. PSA has always made it good for me despite the multiple return, so hang in there
Out of curiosity, were yours direct purchases, or dealer purchases?
Dealer purchases
And the problems with your PS gear that you mentioned, were they resolved via the dealer, or via PS direct?
PS direct
I will wait for my replacement P20 to get here on Monday to test if it also causes an issue. If it does, I will have no choice but to take down the P15 to see if it is also outputting DC. Completely unacceptable, if there is enough DC at the output it can damage connected equipment. Unfortunately I don’t have the proper set-up to quantify the magnitude of the DC on the line.
I’m not sure I trust PS Audio at this point. It seems they are aware of this issue and are firewalling it so it doesn’t get out of hand. The only users that would know they had an issue are those whose amps have huge toroidal transformers.
Another user sent me a private message saying he has the exact same problem on his P20 and sent it to PS Audio to look at it while they fixed a display issue on his unit. When he plugs his amps directly into the wall guess what? No transformer buzz! He also has been talking with Mark, the same Mark that was treating my case as if it was an outlier.
You would think that is something Mark would have shared with me: Tony, you aren’t alone there are other users with a similar problem and we are working to get to the bottom of it. Instead he tells me:
“…I’m out of questions and answers. Doesn’t seem like it’s the P20…”
Unreal!
Hmm… I have the BHK 250, I think it has a toroidal transformer inside. I got to try comparing it directly from the wall socket vs. my P15.
Seems a fundamentally different approach to this sort of thing between your market and ours.
You buy something from a dealer. They get your money. The product you bought from them turns out to be faulty. They wash their hands of it. You need to deal with the manufacturer to sort it out.
Whereas here. I buy something from a dealer. They get my money. The product I bought from them turns out to be faulty. The consumer law then kicks in. I return the faulty product to the dealer for refund or replacement. And it’s my choice what happens as to refund or replacement. No need for me to deal with the manufacturer at all.
Have you try:
Wall->CMX2->P20->Amp
?
That is interesting indeed. When I had the cmx2 and put it after the p20 the cmx2 made a weird sound and all 3 lights turned on which it doesn’t even have as a possibility on the legend on the unit.
I haven’t, I am done troubleshooting PS Audio’s faulty equipment. With all the time wasted figuring out what is wrong with a new $10k MSRP product and additional money I spent on the CMX-2s, I refuse to waste any additional man hours.
It is ludicrous that I have to use my own money to buy third party products to determine if their unit is defective, it was my only option as Mark from customer service essentially shrugged his shoulders. The most maddening part is that at the beginning of the week I specifically asked Mark questions regarding the P20 and DC, he just ignored it and told me to try plugging my amps into a non-high current outlet.
If the replacement unit on Monday has the same issue and PS Audio won’t refund me or force the dealer to refund me with no re-stocking fee I will just take it up with my credit card company. The good thing about having enough disposable income to buy expensive gear like this is that the credit card company generally wants to keep you happy so you keep spending on their card.
Or you could just emigrate to Australia (everybody else seems to be doing it) and this problem would have been dealt with promptly without any fuss or bother. I’m totally bamboozled how a merchant can sell a customer a faulty product and then not be involved what-so-ever after that. It should be as simple as, take it back and get your money back, or get another one. Nothing else to think about. The problems I’m reading about here (you aren’t the only one) are the very reason I decided against buying a P20, despite being given an exceptionally good trade-in offer. I hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction soon.
In my experience it is exceedingly odd for the seller not to take primary responsibility.
Yet it seems when owners experience difficulties with their PS equipment, dealers don’t seem to crack much of a mention during the rectification process. The first port of call seems to be here in the forum, or to PS support.
Seems you have been unlucky and to add insult to injury, been treated in a very shoddy way.
Whether the the P20 is defective or not, if it is incompatible with your equipment and making it malfunction you should be able to return it for a full refund to your dealer without question as it is not a warranty issue (or shouldn’t be). It is a case of a product being defective or not fit for purpose.
Despite being a big PS Audio fan (for the sound quality) there is a QC issue IMO - I have already had two issues with my BHK monoblocks and one of my amps is currently off for repair (for the last 3 weeks with no definite timeline for return).
It doesn’t matter how good your equipment sounds, if the way you deal with problems when they occur is not satisfactory then people will not buy from you again.
I know you shouldn’t have to but I think it might be worth contacting Paul directly so you can explain the situation and let him know that something is screwed up in the customer service side of things. Hopefully he can take the situation over and get you sorted with a refund or whatever works best.
I have been communicating with Paul, Jim and Woody. I had a conference call with the GM, Engineering Director and Customer Service Director this morning. Apparently I have old stock units, the high frequency noise I heard coming from the rear of the unit was a known issue and they have implemented a hardware fix to eliminate it on the more mature production units.
They are sending me additional advanced replacements for my P15 and P20 units that I currently have, which they said they are going to personally inspect for compliance. I made it very clear that if they are only interested in sending replacement units to remedy the situation that is a solution that will not work for me and I would rather just return the units for a full refund. I was assured once I am satisfied and have three functional units they said they would work with me to compensate the time/money/trouble spent throughout this process.
As of the time of this writing I believe everything is on the up and up. I will keep everyone posted as to the performance of the replacement units when they arrive.
Thanks for sharing. I am also interested in their power units and your overall experience will help me make my decision as they aren’t exactly cheap.