Exactly they aren’t cheap so you would expect problems to be rare and when they do occur you would expect top notch service. The sad thing is that when they work as they are supposed to (as in my system) they are brilliant. I’ve got a P10 and a P20 and I can’t go back to listening connected directly to the mains. If I had to return the P20 even once I would be really annoyed because it is unbelievably heavy and bulky.
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[Not meant as dropping a lure behind the boat:] On what basis do you believe you are entitled to any “compensation”?
Sincerely yours.
I am not going to throw salt in the wound and detail this over again. You are entitled to your own opinion and I am not going to justify anything to you. I will comment that it is much different viewing from the sidelines when you didn’t spend $40k+ MSRP on PS Audio products in the past two months to be critical of another persons experience.
Obviously PS Audio agrees that my experience is an extraordinary case and wants to rectify the situation to my satisfaction. If not, they would have told me to return the units for refund and I would be on my way. That is what is great about the free market!
That’s all I am going to say on this matter.
Cheers,
Tony
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Quite clearly he is owed compensation if he has been sold a product which PS has now admitted had a known design fault…a product that had shipped to a dealer and kept in stock that hadn’t been recalled to implement a design fix, which if there was a proper QA/QC process in place would have happened. And subsequently to all this, when he took delivery of the (unknown to him) faulty product it has damaged his pre-amp (if it turns out the tech that is repairing his pre-amp comes to that conclusion). At the very least he is owed compensation for the damage done to his pre-amp by the faulty PS product (if it turns out that this is what happened).
It is an appalling state of affairs. But as the people who can do something about it now know about it, and who now are doing something about it, all is well that ends well.
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Nope. It was an honest question (not directed to you). Typically, repairs or refunds are on the table when it comes to retail transactions. I was honestly wondering where the damages and losses were that would allow for compensation. Brodric helped me some with his comments about a potentially damaged pre-amp.
I can certainly understand the frustration and disappointment the OP is experiencing.
Sincerely yours.
I just want to make a clear distinction: the known hardware issue on early generation models was the high pitched switching sound heard near the Ethernet port. I am not sure the consequences this fault has aside from the audible annoyance. I do not believe the hardware fix is related to the DC offset, this is a separate issue I experienced which was likely the contributor to my pre-amps demise.
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You don’t know me/don’t know my intentions; and have chosen to go on the offensive (and be offensive). You don’t have to agree with me/we can agree to disagree (or not). I am moving on and will not be replying to/in this sidebar again.
Regards.
I hope you get it sorted, soonest.
Best of luck.
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Fortunately for me I’ve never had a PS Audio power plant smoke any connected devices. They have only smoked themselves. Which is OK if they don’t set fire to anything, and they didn’t. And even better, when they smoke themselves under warranty I get a new one. The downside is being without a power plant until its replacement arrives, and if it blows a $50 after-market fuse during its self immolation.
Same here. Both my P-10s gave up the ghost but didn’t damage any of the audio equipment… One P-10 burnt itself out and the other P-10 kept switching off! I would go to bed and all was well but when I walked into the listening room in the morning the P-10 had switched off. It was suggested to me that one piece of equipment could be causing the issue - but it turned out to be a fault with the P-10. After both P-10s were repaired one of them still had issues - so once again returned again for repair, when it was returned to me I sold both P-10s. I now use another make of device which has worked faultlessly.
I feel for Todesengel because I have been through it all myself. When I’ve expressed my frustrations on the forum, some members who hadn’t experienced any problems, came out with smartass comments…
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Unfortunately, there have been sufficient smart ass comments all around.
Let’s pause for a bit.
It appears Todesengel’s situation is on the right track (a chilling avatar for those of us familiar with German).
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Good grief, Brodric. This takes the cake. There is no “known defect” that can damage products. That’s just utter horse shit and inflammatory. Please refrain from this. It doesn’t help anyone.
The only “known defect” we have had is an occasional singing capacitor under some cases (and they are rare). The cap can sing with a high pitched noise and though it is rare it is something we have found out over time.
Yeah I know. The OP clarified that aspect subsequent to my comment, which you will see in the thread progress, because his initial reference might have suggested that something known and preventable may have been at play to cause what happened. As he made clear, it wasn’t, so that’s all good.
Quite a few of us have some sympathy for him, receiving two new PS products that didn’t work properly. And as many know, some of us can relate directly how disappointing that is because it has also happened to us.
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Right. I can understand people’s frustrations. You pay a lot of money for these things and then they don’t work it is frustrating. I’m still waiting for my BHK monoblock to come back from repair and this is the second problem it has had - not to mention the fact that the damn thing weighs a tonne. When it works it sounds great but when I used to buy £1K amplifiers I never had these kind of problems. When you pay £15K you expect it to work reliably and if there is a problem for it to be fixed fast. I think some understanding of people’s frustrations would go a long way.
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Thanks. Appreciate a calmer approach and value the insights you often bring to the table.
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I wanted to provide closure to this thread, it has been an arduous journey that started out back on March 29 when I paid for two P20 and a P15 from Upscale Audio. When the units arrived one of the P20s was DOA. The other working P20/P15 both had a high pitched noise emanating from the rear of the units which turned out to be a known issue that had been rectified on more mature production units. The real killer though was that when my large mono block amplifiers with 2 x 1.1kVA toroidal transformers ea. were connected to the P20, a loud mechanical hum was produced from the amplifiers audible throughout my listening room. When plugged directly into the wall the amplifier hum was almost inaudible unless you put your ear directly on the amplifier.
I was not satisfied with the customer service I was receiving and got Paul involved. Paul took control of the situation and had advanced replacement units sent out immediately. These units were supposed to be vetted by their senior staff to ensure they would work flawlessly in my system. Unfortunately even the replacement units caused the exact same issue with the hum in the amplifier.
In my extensive troubleshooting which included the purchase of an Emotiva DC blocker I had come to the conclusion that either the P20 is generating its own DC offset or significantly amplifying an existing DC offset present from the incoming power. When the Emotiva DC blocker was connected (Wall outlet–>P20–>DC Blocker–>Amp) there was absolute no hum in the amplifiers. With the substantial amount of money PS Audio charges for the P20, I did not find it an acceptable solution that I had to insert another companies product in-line to make the unit function properly.
I asked Paul and Co. to facilitate a return with Upscale Audio for a full refund which they did. The refund finally hit my account on May 3rd. This was not a fun month of running almost 300lbs of gear back/forth to FedEx multiple times and essentially providing Upscale Audio a zero interest loan on tens of thousands of dollars. I wish I knew a bank or someone who would do the same for me.
It is a shame, I really enjoyed the sound of the P20 in my system; what I didn’t enjoy was the sound the P20 made in my amplifier. As a replacement I purchased a Furman Reference voltage regulator and power conditioner. I am satisfied with the Furman combo in my system:
To be fair it does not sound quite as good as the P20 did, but at a fraction of the cost the marginal trade-off in sound quality was more than worth it for me and the peace of mind of knowing I don’t have a DC generating device in my system.
A final note on the McIntosh pre-amp that died after being connected to the P20 for less than a week. I was going to have it looked at by an authorized repair shop, however, the lead time was 3 months just to look at it! I opened the unit up myself and it turned out to be a blown fuse. I am back up and running again!
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Thanks for the update. Did you return the P15 as well? Glad to know your McIntosh is OK.