Thanks.
The P15 was returned as well and replaced with the same Furman stack for my living room.
Thanks
Did PSA has explanation on why the DC blocker works when the P20/15 supposed to have all DC offset removed already? This is especially concerning imo.
No. They assured me the units were thoroughly tested with specific attention paid to the DC characteristics. So either something happened during transit or their testing was not sufficient to detect the failure mode that I experienced.
The most frustrating part of this whole thing was initially their customer service department acted like they never heard of such a thing where a P20 could induce hum in an amplifier. Kevin Deal of Upscale reached out to me when PS Audio initiated the refund process, he told me he had heard of this issue before with the Power Plants. I even received a message from a forum member here who told me he had the exact same problem and his P20 was sent to PS Audio to be looked at. PS Audio found a bad board in his unit and his amplifier hum stopped after the repair, unfortunately his unit was returned to him with a scratched screen.
I wonât go into detail of the other problems this member had experienced with his other PS Audio equipment, but the scratched screen was the final straw for him and he decided to sell all of his PS gear and move on. I will share a direct quote from him to help others who need to have their own gear serviced as I found it invaluable myself:
âIâve found getting Paul and Jim Laib involved is about the only way to make service move.â
With PS Audio entering the upper echelon tier with a $20k+ DAC release imminent, the people spending money need to know what they are (not) getting with that investment. They have great customer interaction/engagement and I believe they mean well, PS Audio just needs to match that with manufacturing expertise/reliability and customer service that works without getting the CEO/GM involved.
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All My PS gear has broken down many times. The screen on my DS I gave up. I still like it. I guess I am a gluten for punishment. Sure, there is better stuff out there but way more money. Plus those often have issues too. If the TSS beats my MSB Select DAC II, loaded with mono powerbases it will be worth 20 grand. Regardless if it has hiccups or not IMO.
I wanted an explanation of the picture of the P20 with 0.00THD in and 01.00THD out? What the heck did you plug it into? Certainly not the wall?
PSA does not measure high frequency noise because others easily beat it but that is okay. Overall it sounds good and I am happy with them. People ask me why my P20âs buzz. Well other folks units did and heck it is PSA. I do not mind. You buy top Ferrari and I promise you a Hyundai is more reliable. I know because I have a 2019 812 Superfast. It is literally junk. PSA is at least better than that. Please stop hating on them. They are good people and they try their best.
OH, to the OP. Furman and Panamax are the same company. The Furman power regulator is their lower end unit. You may find the Panamax 5400PM better. It filters with capacitors ala Shunyata instead of a Torroid. I find capacitors or large batteries used as huge capacitors to be quieter(through your speakers) Than units that employ a Toroidal Transformer for their filtration. In fact the 5400PM is better than my Torus(going back) and an Eaton 9PX is much better than that. Forget Eatons published THD, it sounds much better than a P20 IMO. I prefer the P20âs to replacing 250# batteries.
I am not hating on PS Audio, I am sorry you feel that way. I explicitly stated âI believe they mean wellâ. I wrote a rave review about the DSD Sr., it completely changed my system. I objectively provided my impressions of these Power Plant units, using my own experience, other memberâs account of their individual experiences they privately shared with me and data. I give credit where credit is due and despite all my trouble, I still had positive things to say about the P20âs performance.
Regarding your question about the P20 with 0.00THD in and 01.00THD out, thatâs what happened when I plugged the unit into the wall. That was not a good start, of the two P20s I ordered only one was functional.
I am not sure what you were trying to get at with your comment regarding measurement of high frequency noise. If you are referring to the high pitched noise I heard from the back of the units, PS Audio was 100% aware of it and deployed a manufacturing fix as production matured. I believe it was a noisy capacitor. They chose to leave my old units without the fix in the wild and gamble that the buyer would not find issue with it.
It sounds like you have more disposable income than I do, I certainly canât afford any type of Ferrari. Maybe the hiccups you experience with your gear are acceptable because the investment is trivial for you. I had to take on debt to pay for my two P20 and P15, it would seem my expectations are different than yours at this price point. I am not going to argue about that, different strokes for different folks.
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Well said. P20 is just a drop in the ocean when he can afford to spend $200/300K on cablesâŚ!! Regardless of the price of a P20, and/or oneâs disposable income, the P20 should work properlyâŚ!
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It shouldnât be that difficult. Iâm pleased that your dramas with this problematic stuff has come to a satisfactory conclusion for you.
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The same could be said for a few other things in the product stable as well.
I wonder what happens to the stuff that was returned. Iâm guessing it would not fit âopen boxâ or âb-stockâ categories. Perhaps it goes to AA or MD as âmanufacturer refurbishedâ.
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Okay, sorry I misunderstood you. I thought you were bashing them. My apologies. I get if it is a major investment one expects it to work. As I said I have given up on my DS screen locked up. Replaced once, repaired twice. It still sounds darn good.
The P20 is not the be all, end all. There are other fine power conditioners. Both active and passive. I personally find some of the passive ones to be more to my liking.
By high frequency noise I meant they do not measure THD in MHZ and GHZ. I guess they feel that is out of the hearing range.
I would not let Eatonâs less than 2% THD fool anyone though. They tend to make stereo components sound excellent IMO. They are not terribly expensive. You just have to replace the heavy batteries about every 5 years. It powers the worlds infrastructure which is more sensitive than any stereo. I just feel it is an option for some people. Furman is very good. Similar to my Torus I will probably return because it does not have enough outlets. Otherwise it sounds good to me.
I did not mean to be a jerk about my car. I was just pointing out expensive often does not equal quality. Hence the Furman. Much higher quality control I guess. They are a much larger company. PSA does let some bad units out the door unfortunately. I could even say the case not lining up is unacceptable but it is what it is. Like you said people should be aware of what they are buying and set their expectations accordingly. I still think overall their stuff is pretty good. If one expects perfection all the way around PSA might not be for them. Me personally it does not really bother me. Not because of money, just because I donât really mind. At least it is not going to leave you walking down the highway. Actually, I never heard anything blew up and that would be the real concern IMO. Luckily AFAIK none have.
Also, keep in mind that with heavy electronics that some issues on arrival (including DOA) could be due to shipping damage. I once traded in an amplifier that was in perfect working condition when it left my house, and when it arrived, one of the channels was not working. When the FedEx guy picked it up at my house, he told me that some of their employees, especially some of the college kids, will toss heavy packages, or drop them rather than set them down gently. I my case, the amplifier was shipped in the factory original box and packing, and there was no visible damage to the outside of the box when it arrived.
My point is that heavy items could leave PS Audio in perfect working order and arrive with problems due to less than careful handling during shipping.
Great point. Happened to me also, shipping an Audio Research Pre-amp. I can totally see how shipments to e.g. Australia could see some impact events underway. Maybe tossing one of those SpotSee impact indicators into the packaging could provide some insights.
UPS and FedEx have âdrop tests.â I think the UPS test was to drop a test package onto its corners from 6 feet or so onto a concrete pad. I tried looking it up but wasnât able to find it. FedEx has a published procedure for drops and transit vibration.
I wonder how many manufacturers test their packaging for resistance to transit abuse.
Indeed. My Firm has litigated for UPS. Sometimes they lose LOL. I should not even say that but it is public record. It boils down to people that take pride in their job. Only a few donât really. It only takes one to drop that from standing height. It is not 6 feet for a palleted item. I too have had broken trade inâs. I was very upset they thought I was dishonest because I was not. It was damaged in transportation. There does not have to be visible damage to break the contents often. Especially with very heavy items.
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There are also impact monitors which will log the time of a captured event. So you know for sure who to pin the blame on for dropping your package.
The carriers randomly put a small device in an envelope. Attached to the inside flap of a box. On valuable or large items. Often commercial items. This device has an accelerometer and time/date stamp. It records when it was dropped and at what G-force(or fraction thereof). It says on the envelope âif you believe this parcel was damaged during transportation please retain this envelope and call 1-800⌠for instructions. Otherwise you may discard this envelope with the packaging if you so wishâ Then they know when it was dropped and how hard. Given the time they can tell exactly who did it. They keep very tight reigns on their employees. Losing a fortune is no joke to them. Doubtful on something like the P20 but possible if they are having occurrences. They are more concerned about commercial parcels, losing Millions of dollars. Not necessarily just one parcel, but perhaps over the course of many. They do randomly monitor them but mostly commercial shipments.
Sorry to jump in so late on this thread, but was there some way to identify these early production units with the hum or buzzing problem? Some serial number range or production date range?
You beat me to it! If I want to listen to headphones I put them on. I prefer some distance so that a soundstage can manifest itself.
I have a couch 4ft behind the chair. I get the best of both worlds 
That is better. I have never been a fan of near field or headphones.
I thought Iâd add my own initial observations to my recently installed P15. I set it up to drive only my source gear. Up until now my source gear has been conditioned by a Running Springs Haley, which I selected after listening to a number of devices, some taking a balanced power approach.
I listened to a bunch of tunes I know well, and in my initial test I simply plugged the Haley into the P15, but my preamp into a different outlet on the P15. This may or may not be shortchanging what the P15 can do (is it a bad idea to run a conditioner from the P15?), but when I turned my system back on I noticed a little less hiss coming from my speakers. When I actually started playing the same music I noticed less âhashâ in the sibilance range. Very noticeable, and Iâd spent a lot of time making sure my system did not exaggerate vocal sibilants. Everything sounds more natural, but I am (I think) noticing perhaps a bit of shortening of the front to back soundstage. Maybe. My perception could be because the side to side separation has also noticeably improved. Blackness is also better. More to followâŚ
Oh, and no chassis noise at all from the unit. Glad about that.
Although Iâm not yet sure if the music sounds a little âsofterâ. Using sine wave output.