I really hope your experience placing it at bottom will work. It will be hard for me to see a metal sheet on top of P15 permanently, and I do not even need to ask my wife about that. It is a good thing P15 is quite a bit lighter than P20. But it is still a task to remove the top and figuring out where is the best place to put it for P15.
Well the good thing is is work’s external to the regenerator faraday cage. So it is easy trial and error outside placement. It is like tuning speaker placement by ear. I would probably already have it internal if the Dragon power cable was not breaking in. It doesn’t seem cable dependent to produce better sound since it appears the same percentage improvement between AC cable choices. I will look at a P15 internal photo. If similar to P20 in design one smaller piece should do it if transformer is in similar spot. It is my understanding that doubling thickness increases absorption.
It is metal impregnated reminds me of thick green pads on old school Engineering drafting tables before CAD workstations. Lucky me I grew up knowing how to use both.
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So Vmax, is the absorber sheet working on components within the P20 on the bottom or on the top?
I thought from the earlier discussion the screen was emitting most of the RF so placing it underneath the top lid seems the most natural place?
If it’s better on the bottom then it’s components on the base that are causing the issues.
I presume you’re talking about putting the sheet underneath the P20 EXTERNALLY as I cannot see how a sheet could be placed on the floor of the P20.
It is able to address RF and EMI and magnetic fields is my understanding and can absorb just by proximity. I am guessing it is addressing the display, transformer and maybe the noise in ribbon cable routed up in that proximity. Whether distance is too great from bottom is what I plan to find out. I have no idea where the FPGA resides i know it is less effective with more material trying to cover the majority of lid or towards the back. It also has no affect on front and back vertical panels in my trials.
It seems to be used in cell phones lots to cut down circuit noise and provide better reception.
I did not try the bottom panel exterior dsde of P20 yet But plan to later tonight. Just temporary adherence with painters tape.
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Hey Vmax…
How close in proximity to your gear is your P20?
My P20 is center top shelf wedged between two big monoblocks. But slightly forward so cooling fins of P20 and amps don’t directly heat each other.
I moved the sheet to bottom of the P20 so it aligns it’s rear edge with the center screw of the toroidal transformer. It is almost an identical sound as the top. I think top is slightly clearer sound it is almost a draw. Would like to hear your opinion I think piano high note keys ring a little closer to live on top. Either is better than no absorption.
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Wow, do you mean it is almost as good as from on top? I’m happy to live with that just for the visual factor! Do you tape it to the bottom or just laying on the surface?
I just taped it temporarily by 4 sides. If one plays with it it may improve more on bottom.
The P15 I could not find any internal photos but display is off set instead of centered. I am guessing the transformer is too?
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I’ll ask James from PSA maybe later. But this sounds like a plan. Thanks for trying out! I’ll need to find the 3M AB7050 as soon as I come back from vacation.
There are tons of pictures of interiors on P20, P3 and P10 and nothing on P15. P10 has display on the side like P15, but transformer is at the same location as P20. My guess is P15 has it at center too. The transformer sits near bottom so maybe putting absorber at bottom is just as effective.
I think 3M AB7050 is replaced by AB5050. They are at the same thickness but 7050 is hard to find.
I was a Draftsman for 20 years before I switched to CAD (Swoon!!!)
That surface was called “Borco” and I bought a lot of it.
When I switched to CAD I made the places I worked turn off all overhead lights. They also learned to accept I had headphones on that emitted odd music but nobody complained. When others started doing it as well productivity increased. But one guy keep stealing our portable CD players and headphones. We put a camera in a box and showed the video to the individual and he resigned quietly. He kept my gear. Bah.
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Borco really. I remember buying and replacing some. Amazing memory! That person stealing gear must have been selling it. Probably took your music CDs too.
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My AB7050HF arrived today.
As my P20 sits on 3 Stillpoint 6’s it’s not practical for me to put the material on the bottom.
I think I’ll be very happy with cutting my piece to the size Vmax recommends and sticking it to the underside of the top lid.
From what I understand Vmax is saying one side of the material has an adhesive backing.
It’s a big job for me to access the top of my P20 as I need to disassemble one of my racks as my P20 sits on the bottom shelf.
I think it’s too heavy for me to try to haul it out of it’s shelf.
I’ve a Bybee iSQE available which I’ll probably install on the floor of the P20 when I have the top off.
From the pictures I’ve seen there’s plenty of room on the floor of the P20 to place the Bybee.
It’s easy to trial the material without opening the lid. The Bybee seems to be different technology with it counter forces for magnetic interference.
The 3M material just turns radio and electromagnetic energy into heat until it dissipates. I would hope you use 3M material before delidding then see if ByBee improves upon the sound. That way you can see the difference or similarities.
The AB5050 addresses frequencies that are lower better. The AB7050 treats the higher ones that FCC keeps selling off and were traditionally controlled by the military but now have many commercial uses. I used both material when modding the DS DAC.
3M offers attenuation graphs in their data sheets.
I see, that’s very helpful information. We just landed in Honolulu . My wife is happy now and it’s a part of Dragon package deal. I need to buy her something for the other Dragon48 deal.
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Well some time at the North shore at The Turtle Bay Resort will help after she shops her hearts content in Honolulu.
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I used the AB7050HF last night with the adhesive side up and some of the material sitting over the front edge of my P20.
I had the best music experience last night.
I finished up with the Beatles 1’s CD and the sound was great, very vibrant and immediate.
It was amazing listening to how the recording process changed over the years and how the interplay was between them, especially the vocals.
Now I’ve Purple fuses installed, about 10 -15 hours for pre-amp and power amps but only a couple on the transport and dac.
Very happy indeed with these two tweaks.
After Vmax confirms best placement I need to see about getting the AB7050HF installed underneath the top lid.
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Sheridd2,
I think you hit the nail on the head with the vibrant adjective. That indeed is what the AB7050HF on the P20 adds to any recordings or sources plugged into the regenerator. Now that you have experienced it, take it away and the difference between treated and untreated does literally jump out. I was truly enthused when I found out what it did in the best placement.
The only Beatles I have listened to is the Abbey Road remaster since my tweaking. Oh boy were their studio interactions evident. I will have to try Beatles One. The best part of the 3M absorber is it requires no break in an is tuneable by repositioning. I am glad to hear that my choice of positioning gets your nod. It makes any recording sound more live.
Now my Dragon Power Cord is nearly broke in. I will work inside P20 positioning for the best optimization.
I really do think PS Audio needs to add the absorber to the P20 BOM. I believe Michael Fremer would choose P20 over Audioquest Power Conditioners. Since the P20 with the absorber reconditions/cleans and also regenerates the power.
@DarrenMyers you got to try this tweak on your home system running the P20. It will really open your eyes.
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