P20 web interface

Power Components
1

@Paul, why doesn’t the web interface in the P20, P15, and PS12 offer anything of relevance, like power stats and configuration?
The interface for the P12 has been broken for years now!
One would imagine that at $10K for a P20, PS could offer a little more relevant content.

But if PS is not willing to put the “work” to offer a richer interface with power stats, full PS config, outlet programming sequences, etc. PS should offer an API so others can do the work for them for free. It would take me 2 days of “work”, if that, to make the interface look like something representative of a $10K unit.

2

There is a yet unfixed downside to using the web interface with the P20. If you use it then in a short period of time the P20 will become uncontrollable via the web interface, the remote, and the front panel. The only fix is to power down and back up. The only cure is to not use the web interface. I don’t even have ethernet connected up to mine to remove temptation.

Stats are of no interest to me at all. It’s all about the rewards of using a P20 for me.

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4

PowerPlay is where the stats are. The web interface was never intended for anything other than simple changes to the zones and naming. IT was never supposed to be the central point of the Power Plants.

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5

I find the web interface useful for setup. Once completed I exit the interface.

I have not experienced the lock-up Al describes.

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6

I had my subs connected to the two D ports. I was using the web interface daily to shutoff the subs for wife issues. The lockups started happening, I contacted support. I was told they were aware of the issue and had no fix.

7

It appears I need to use the interface much more than I do to experience the issue.

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  1. Just by the fact that you have to use a workaround, implies that the interface is broken. The interface in the P12 does not work as intended, or as the interface works in the P15 and P20.

  2. What we like and do not like, has no place on defining a bug.
    If the system does not work as per the design specs, freezes, or does not provide the functionality the design specs dictated, then the system is either broken or has bug. If you offer DHCP, as per the spec of DHCP, all the IP functionality must be identical as static addressing. I am not say this, it is written on the spec.
    If I have to power off-and-on to unfreeze the web UI, then the interface is not only broken but affects the system’s functionality.
    Furthermore, given the extremely limited functionality of the web interface, it should not take more than a few hours to fix it. If you need more than 300 lines of code to define a few outlet names, 4 on and off assignments, and a DHCP-or-static switch then whoever coded the page is not doing right.

The DHCP and response issues are possibly a NIC firmware issue. In the case it is, it would be a simply ask to the NIC’s OEM for a firmware update.

I would have a really hard time believing the PS went on to write their own NIC firmware/driver given the web’s interface limited functionality and an even harder time believing that whoever sells the NIC to PS would not have a fix for such a fundamental bug.

Aside that I count on the interface to work to turn on and off my components, and having to plug and unplug the ETH cable is not an option for me, no engineer worth a dime, would agree that having to unplug/plug an ETH cable for the system to respond is not a bug, nor would agree that having to workaround a simple field definition is not a bug.

One could deny the facts, but that doesn’t change reality.

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@Paul fair enough that you did not design the interface to do more.

How about fixing the bugs in the interface and system response?

It has been years since many of us have brought this up to your support team, and your engineering team have not released a fix.

thank you

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My P20 crashes after about 1 hour after you use the interface as well. I can’t access Powerplay either mind you, as it has no unit code programmed inside it for whatever strange reason.

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Pretty much how I used it as well. It is currently on ice for the season. too heavy to move back and forth. Should the promotion return I’d consider a second unit for my tube system. Very happy with it overall. The online feature is nice when initially setting the unit up. After that I pretty much use it with out an ethernet hook-up, and with the display off. Should have purchased Black, for the darker backgrounds. Ha!

12

I’m fairly new to the PSA forum, so please excuse my ignorance. You raise some interesting points that I considered before purchasing the PS3. I decided to forego the network connectivity capabilities.

I agree with @aangen response:

That’s the ultimate goal.

As to points 1 & 2 above, Paul pretty much lays it out here …

The issue here is one of “end user expectations” with respect to Interface and Functionality.

If end users are attempting to have an interface or product perform beyond it’s intended design specification, then it could be said that such end user expectation would be unrealistic.

I’ve tried to get some idea on just how PowerPlay plays into the conversation but when I attempt to search for it, PSA directs me to my dashboard. Most likely because I have no PSA products registered that use that functionality.

Excellent question: What exactly needs to be fixed from the customer base perspective?

To paraphrase Tina Turner: What’s DHCP got to do with It and whose NIC card are we referring to here?

Again, I don’t have access to PowerPlay, I don’t see any reference to schematics that would show internal network interface circuitry.

Static vs Dynamic assignment of IP configuration isn’t gonna make much difference once a network connection has been established. Maintaining that connection is subject to establishing a good initial connection to the server and traffic (Internet) between the server and the client e.g. P20.

This is a two-way street and the internet and networks on both ends of the connection play a role in the overall quality of the connection.

BTW - I can believe that PSA wrote their own firmware. After all, they designed the product.

As an example, Camera manufactures like Canon, Fujifilm and Nikon write their own firmware for the products. Schiit Audio does the same thing, so why can’t PS Audio engineers write their own firmware?

What this conversation is saying to me is that this should either be (A) a dedicated forum topic with regard to PowerPlay/Web UI, not just the P20 but including P20, P15 & P12. IMHO, the Web UI/functionality interface should be consistent across the three powerplants mentioned previously, with respect to component capabilities. For example, the P3 design specifications does not include Web UI/interface, PowerPlay, etc.

Bottomline: There are no bugs per se - but there are some opportunities, provided PSA is open to customer participation in a beta testing project designed to enhance the existing Web interface and explore enhancing functionality.

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Good point. Let me have a look if we can get some resources on it. Thanks for the reminder.

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If you use DHCP, the interface freezes and you have to reboot the PS, which does not happen when it is static, thus there is a problem and a bug; unless PS intended for the user to have unplug and plug the ETH cable, or reboot the PS to get it unstuck which would be an incredibly flawed design.
I give PS engineers a LOT more respect and credit, this precisely why I would be willing to bet anyone any amount of money that PS engineers would not design something so flawed.

I never said that PS can’t write a NIC firmware, I said that I doubt they would because the NIC in the PS units does not need to do anything special for a NIC, so unless they are using a custom and extremely unique NIC it would make not much sense to assign engineering resources to develop something that it is available from the OEMs, that has been tested.
If PS is using an FPGA to mount the NIC, then the use case is even simpler.

Although I am not the ultimate authority, not even close, and I that I do not know anything on how PS is run, I would be shocked if PS was in the business of developing a very special NIC costs at the very least hundreds of thousands in design, development, instrumentation, testing and manufacturing.
I also seriously doubt that PS sells enough devices to even amortize these development costs.
Without getting into much details, I lead a group of R&D engineers that develops FPGAs and GPUs for one of the top 3 largest consumers of hardware in the world. My company deploys anything between 200K-300K GPUs, 400K FPGAs and 200K NICs a month so I know very well, at least for my company, what it takes to go and develop new hardware/software. It is becoming very hard to make a business case for not leveraging what is already available.

I also seriously doubt that any of the manufactures you motion develop their own firmware; what manufactures do, is to add/remove/enable/disable features to the OEM’s firmware so the firmware becomes a branch from the OEM’s. Again, developing a NIC firmware from scratch would be an insanely bad decision, as there is already firmware developed by the OEMs with pretty much any functionality you can imagine, that has been tested, passed over 40 certifications, gets maintained, and fixed for the customer, in this case PS.
But who knows…anything is possible…maybe PS wanted the system to freeze, behave differently in one of the most adopted and enforced protocols in the world. I do not think it is very likely that they did.

I do not want to boil the ocean, I asked Paul a very simple question, why they do not offer a richer UI experience and to fix a few bugs that have been reported, and acknowledged by their own tech support, for years.
He reasonable responded saying that that was not the intent for the WebUI.
The next reasonable question would be, does the hardware have the resources to add more functionality? If the answer is no, then that is the end of the discussion.
If the hardware does have the resources to add functionality, then the next question would, does it make sense for PS to assign resources to offer a richer experience? If it is not worth for them, then could they offer access to the API so people outside PS could develop a richer UI experience?
I don’t need to see any of the stats while I listen to music, but it would be very interesting to be able to analyze and see what the Pxx did and does from the WebUI.

The PS-12 WebUI is broken, period; not one UI-developer would want to return failed queries or pointers (i.e. the REF in the WebUI) be exposed like they are in the PS12 WebUI.

The P20 also has bugs, again acknowledged by PS support, that have not been addressed for years.

PS support acknowledged these bugs, in some cases years ago, so unless anyone on this forum knows better than PS, then these are bug.
It is completely irrelevant what we think and want. It is either a bug or not. PS said that these are bugs, so for me the discussion is over with regards to them.

@Paul, thank you! It would be great if you could fix the P20 and P12. I just bought my second P20, and I have a P12 and I am going to be in a wheelchair for the next 2-3 months and having to go to the rack, get behind to reset the ETH cable, or flipping the switch in the back in the Pxx is not an option.

If you have an API doc for your Pxx it would be great if you could share it. I would love to make a prototype, that includes, the power current status, add a few graphs similarly to those in the touch-screen, and add programing logic to the outlets.
I think it would be great to be able to program/create and name a power-on sequence like,
Power on sequence #1

  1. Power on the TT.
  2. Power on the phono stage.
  3. Power on the DAC.
  4. Power on the subs.
  5. Power on the amp(s),
    Power-off Sequence #!
  6. Turn off the amp(s)
  7. Turn off the subs.
  8. Turn off the DAC.
  9. Turn off the phono stage.
  10. Turn off the TT.

These sequences should not be all that difficult as you already provide the functionality.

15

I have the API codes and I’ll email them over to you now.

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16

A static IP makes sense - if the WebUI is freezing up when using DHCP, then there’s something going on there. My understanding of DHCP is that ANY DHCP server on the network may service the request, so raises the question of how well is PSA’s DHCP server and available IP address pool is being managed

Again traffic on the network could cause the connection to timeout resulting in issues with the Web/UI (code design unable to trap, handle and report network errors?) That would be on the server side (network layer) not necessarily the UI.

I agree. I wasn’t suggesting they wrote the entire layer but most likely involved in writing the drivers, TCP/IP calls.

Again, I’m not fully aware of ALL of the issues surrounding this topic. I just know adding network connectivity adds a layer of complexity that potentially introduces unexpected results. I mean it’s a nice feature to have but why I chose the P3 vs the P12.

PSA is in the business of designing and manufacturing audio equipment yes?

You said it yourself, PSA would have to dedicate engineering and programming resources just to deal with the network layer, so we can agree, PSA is not in the software development business. It’s not their raison d’être.

Anyway, looks like @jamesh is providing you with the API’s.

Good Luck!

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I use P20 web interface to switch on/off my tube preamp and CD transport every time I listen to my main system. In my experience, P20 needs rebooting about once a month, which I find acceptable, but YMMV.

The interface may be improved in numerous ways, but it does the job for me as is.

What I thought is needed is a discription of how it works in the P20 manual and online. I remember I discovered the web interface by accident and had to figure it out.

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My P20 just decided about a month ago to start crashing (display), to the point where the screen goes blank (or does not turn on), and the only way to get any display functionality back is to do a hard reboot from behind. It has been running on the same firmware since received new, about a year and a half ago. Here I thought I finally had a piece of PS Audio gear that didn’t have some sort of issue…wishful thinking, I guess.

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Have you started using the web interface? if you have the Ethernet cable plugged in then try removing it and see if issue goes away. This is a common problem with mine and many peoples P20. Someone said that if you disable dhcp and use fixed address then this can fix the problem.

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These does nothing when the P20 crashes, and like Orosie the only way to get it back is doing a hard reboot.
One of the reasons I bought the P12, P15 and P20 is to turn on and off components from the webUI. I am in a wheelchair and getting to the back of my racks is very difficult to say the least and having the Ps laying on the floor is not an option for me.

@Paul is your team working on a fix for the P20 crashes and DHCP and the P12 UI and crashes?
thank you

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Yes, I only meant to stopping it from crashing in the 1st place, once it’s dead it’s dead.