Yes.
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Thanks! Hi-end audio is getting complicated.
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Agreed. With streaming you now need to know about protocols, media conversions, networking, servers, storage, or appliances and compatibility. With a turntable you could coast along for years, maybe your whole life with little to no change. As soon as you go digital, you are faced with all sorts of compatibility issues, as well as end-of-life issues (support) from the vendor.
Digital made me lazier than analog. Not savvier for sure.
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It may have made you physically lazier. But think about how much brain power you personally have put into determining and maintaining your digital path from the internet or your local server/appliance. You yourself have done quite a bit this year.
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Never been able without your help (and patience).
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All I suggested was to try to keep it simple.
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I am a huge Roon “fanboy” 
So I started helping on their forums. I’ve got a strong networking background but a limited “digital playback” background. Helping others forced me to understand this stuff on a practical level. The conclusion I came up with is that it’s no more complicated than pure analog.
If you’re a fan of separates then you’ve already got something to read media, one or more pre-amps, amps, speakers, maybe eq. If you’re a fan of all-in-ones than you may have one thing to read media and then something else holding the pre, amp, etc. 2 boxes.
Digital is no different, in fact you can get away with 1 box. Plenty of all-in-one “integrated” that give you file storage, streaming, storage, a pre, and an amp.
However, it can get complicated if you keep building out separates because there are often more boxes than analog (and this is complicated by manufacturers coming up with all kinds of new types of boxes or ways of separating digital even further). You need something to hold and serve files or streaming (a server), you need a digital transport to take it off the network, you need a DAC to convert it to analog, and then you need to keep all your existing analog gear. Then there is the debates about what else needs to be “hifi” in that chain. Do you need a separate switch for your digital playback chain? Do you need a reclocker? That’s when it gets complicated. I started in this hobby with a “boombox”. I started with files using a USB to SPDIF Coax into an AVR. I’ve now got multiple servers, streamers, DACs, a box dedicated to SRC, etc. One step at a time. Stop when you’re happy.
It doesn’t have to be complicated though. Again, just like analog, you can stack as few or as many boxes as you want into the hifi rack.
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I’ve commented a few times that a master diagram for streaming might help both explanations and misunderstandings and differences of opinion over nomenclature - with the various blocks required to get music from (local or remote) disk to the analogue outs of a DAC.
No one has bitten, this is either because it’s a carp idea, or because everyone is busy, so I just did
this in 10 minutes as a very rough first draft.
When I’ve cleared the table enough to get to my windows PC I can get Visio going and work this up into a better first draft (if you see what I mean).
It will make (a lot) more sense with some colours and different shaped boxes etc. promise 
Edit - I’d also aim to add the control plane as well (iPeng, mConnect or whatever),
and a bit more space / detail aorund the inputs to the DAC (USB vs the AES/I2S/SPDIF realtime streams) and add examples of devices that fit each box or sub box.
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I was naive to think streaming just adding another box, or in Bridge2 case a card in a box. I did not know there was a difference between server and endpoint, and I had no idea what a switch is, a re-clocker is, a SPS/LPS is, an Isolator is, a SSD is, not to mention all unusual types of cables required. I am still confused about what I need to do and how to spend correctly to get excellent streaming sound.
I am still waiting and learning to find a “simple” solution to get excellent sound out of this wild world. Will AirLens be the solution? I surely hope so.
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Gee that is a good price, for what it is / or promised! Thanks for sharing the Aussie pricing.
The Lindemann Limetree Bridge II was just a little cheaper again (with Black Friday pricing) and provided a significant upgrade over the PS Audio Bridge II in my system.
@Alan_de_Flumere - I know you were asking about least cost, excellent sound, no Roon, no Tidal… the Lindemann might be worth a look. It comes with its own app that allows access to whatever is on your home network (or USB storage), plus Qobuz, Deezer, Highresaudio, Spotify, airable radio and errm, Tidal. I mainly use it with Roon though.
What about JRiver Media Center?
Do you happen to know, Vince?
TIA.
It seems to me it’s all about protocol. If JRiver uses UPnP, or one of the other supported protocols, it shouldn’t be much different then using a xxRendu. Config the app on the Rendu, open up streaming app (JRiver), and hopefully see the “endpoint” being advertised within the app.
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Like @ipeverywhere, I’m a Roon fanboy. I have about 30 Roon Ready devices, and the QNMAP server specified by Roon (TS-473 - it’s also quite a lot cheaper if your option is the Roon Nucleus). I use Ubiquiti access points as recommended by @vkennedy61.
So this incredibly simple configuration, which is what Roon recommends, serves 11 zones and most of my house. All the cabling is CAT 6a. My unit is Roon Ready, but a Roon endpoint like AirLens is fine.
I no longer use Roon in my main system, I use this configuration, a little more sophisticated, but which is also extremely common. I use a 25m fibre cable, and the server/transport is Innuos. I use usb, but it cold be uPnP, so AirLens could go in this layout as well.
I just don’t see why it has to be complicated and the reality is that using Roon Ready devices really does make things very simple indeed.
Your diagram has lots of boxes, but quite a few boxes seem to be a single device.
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YUep - My main reason for doing a diagram is to clarify (for me, but maybe for others) what the differences are between a DAC, a streaming DAC, a USB input in a DAC (which include the last stage of a typical streamer box), and the varioius ways the file storage can be attached - there have been multiple discussions, questions, and disagreements in these threads about which bit goes where.
Hence, my block diagrams will have boxes within boxes (within boxes).
Might make it seem more complicated, but might function as a reference when folks ask why (for example) they can’t stream from the internet without an app, why PSA doesn’t need t produce an app (though one might be nice, we’ve seen how hard it is to get software right).
Or, for example, why USB behaves so differently to a SPDIF input on a DAC.
Or, for example, why a DAC with an ethernet input isn’t just a DAC, but has to have an IP stack, and realtime stream rendering widget too.
These examples have all caused confusion (and a bit of dissent at times) in this and other threads.
Me, I just like a good block diagram that shows me all the signal and control flows, and I guess I might be a bit bored too
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From a normal, non Hifi/streaming human‘s point of view this post must be funny. Hardly an understandable word, two sketches which probably just speak to 0,00001% of the population…and the words „incredibly simple“ And all that just to play music…
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Yes, though it has to be said, folks seem to have some very complex vinyl setups here too, requiring precision instruments just to set up and maintain, what with scales and protractors and microscopes and vacuum pumps and degritters etc. etc.
Edit - I think in both cases, it can be simple (buy a preconfigured TT and/or get your dealer to do it), and for streaming, just buy a streamer/dac/(amplifier if you like) all in one and just plug and play.
Absolutely correct. The fun thing at this post was, what we meanwhile think is easy
On the other hand, one can have such scenarios built by a dealer, just like having an electricity house setup done by an electrician.
The only problem most have is when there’s a problem. Then they can only hear music again, when the dealer and/or network technician shows up
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The first one is incredibly simple.
You may not even need a switch if there is a spare socket in the back of your modem. The QNAP could just be a Roon Nucleus, which is pretty much plug-and-play, but that would require a usb connection. The wireless connection to the audio system is no different to Spotify or Airplay, which is what millions of people do all the time.
The only difference from a non-hifi typical set-up is that most people use wireless access points with WPS connection. Any form of home automation works better with wired access points. The Ubiquiti ones come pre-programmed and connect automatically.
If I didn’t have a stored music library, and most people these days don’t, my system would look like this.
Huge numbers of people do this, with things like BlueSound, Cambridge Audio EVO, Naim Uniti and many others, or just use wifi or Airplay. You take the thing out of the box, plug it in, connect to your home wifi and that’s it.
Audiophiles just sometimes assume something is going to be complex when it isn’t, or just want to make it complex because that’s half the fun. The AirLens seems like it just adds complexity, because it’s not a streamer and I’m not sure what it’s meant to do, given galvanic isolation is common these days, including in Innuos devices.
The other thing is wanting to use extremely high data rates, but not wanting to use the obvious way of transmitting it - usb. So that’s more boxes, power supplies etc.
I’m glad I haven’t gone down this rabbit hole. For most of the last 12 years I’ve used usb. When I had a PS Audio DAC Paul advocated that usb was fine because the Digital Lens cleaned up any source, reducing jitter and being bit perfect.
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In addiction to a so called complexity of the digital path I find there is also a truly difficult concept related to media (and their availability) for newbies like me. MQA, Hi-Res, DSD, DoP and PCM concept I’m becoming familiar with only recently. In a material media world we had CDs or SACDs (the letter less than popular at all) or LPs eventually with different grams (or some originally remastered editions and UHQR recordings very rarely).
Still today I confess I cannot found a market place (on the web) where easily search and purchase from large quantities of DSD files to be downloaded: rock ‘70s or ‘90s, americana folk, alternative modern indie - NOT classical or jazz (like HDtracks or NativeDSD). Where do you buy DSD albums of these genres to build a personal DSD library? I would be happy if one day Qobuz made us able to stream DSD albums (I mean with the same complete actual Hi-Res catalog).
Not to mention what Paul is promoting about pure DSD recording, like Octave Records is trying to do. This relates only to new productions.
If the only way to go is buying SACDs (that are themselves pretty rare compared to CDs) to rip them, well I’m incline to stuck with the physical media because otherwise I consider this process a contradiction: digital made me lazy so I expect to be able to search/download/play a DSD album with a finger touch on my iPad (or MacMini) in a few minutes. A rock collection in DSD format may only be nowadays the result of multiple ripping actions by personal audiophile collectors? If so how can I buy rock DSD albums I love, just asking to other single collectors? It recalls me the time when Napster born! It seems not law compliant and quite elitist based only on personal relationships and attitudes or kindness of accomplish friends. Awaiting a DSD Qobuz subscription (pretty improbable) how can I build my personal library of rock DSD albums?
Thanks in advance.
In conclusion I think that the diffusion of (high quality) digital music is the key to convince more audiophiles to enter this world and Qobuz/Tidal are evident examples on the other hand the market law always depends on demand, so the offer is a consequence. Music and gears are strictly related, one depends on each other and the number of people (audiophiles I mean of course) still stuck with vinyl (as I was until last months) might pull the trigger if found easier platform to experiment, quality is the key, bypassing a mental barrier that some new acknowledgment needed from digital rig bring. Complexities are not so determinants IMHO.
Time will tell.
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