The other is to make your interface better than Apple, Tidal, or Spotify otherwise people will just stay in those native apps and use Airplay or whatever Connect. When people use Airplay or whatever Connect then manufacturers lose the stickyness of brand loyalty. The consumer’s loyalty is to the app not your hardware. I have no hardware loyalty because I use Roon (and is one reason I use Roon). Will PS change that? I think they are well positioned to do so.
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Argh. Seems I remember a post by Paul that the AirLens neither contains a hard drive nor has a means of connecting to external storage. So, if not being used to stream from the internet, what type of device would be needed to serve as a source? An NAS with associated limited-function computer and software, in effect a server? Does that mean the forthcoming PSA Server will be one box that unites the function of the AirLens with a hard drive? If I’m making a shopping list of what components I need to play stored digital music through my DAC, what would that list include? AirLens+???, or just the PSA Server?
I guess, what I’m looking for is this: I’d like to start from scratch, and join the modern world of digital music archiving and streaming, and I have a DirectStream DAC and Transport. I really like these products and hope PSA will enable me to meet my objectives with as few purchases as necessary, either as one box or a set of compatible/complementary units. I want to avoid kludging together multiple products by different manufacturers with slightly different standards and perhaps compromised compatibility. So PSA, can you tell me if in the next two years you are going to make my dreams come true? If so, I won’t feel compelled to investigate other options.
If you start from scratch joining the modern world of streaming the Airlens is for you.
If you want to join the world of ripping and download I think the Octave server is the product for you. (or Roon)
I think it is great that PS Audio launch a clean streamer so that we don’t have to pay for hardware and software we don’t need.
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You need two things.
You need a “server” and you need a digital transport.
The definition of a server is fuzzy. But, essentially it is the thing that manages your music library. On one end of the spectrum you may consider Spotify a server. Spotify is a cloud based server that manages a library of 70 million tracks that you rent. Your digital transport, in this environment, is anything that supports Spotify Connect and you interact with the server using the Spotify App. Spotify, as server, does not support tracks outside of the stuff you can rent; you cannot supply your own files to augment the rented library.
On the other end of the spectrum of a Server option is Audirvana or Roon or similar. Both support local file storage and/or network storage of files you own (how to obtain those files is for another post). Both integrate multiple cloud based sources of music as well (Tidal, Qobuz, maybe others). That’s nice for augmenting gaps in the stuff you own or getting a listen to newly released stuff when you can’t get to the store. Each of those supports some of the same and different digital transports (here protocols like Airplay, ChromeCast, RAAT, DLNA, etc. matter but I’ll not get into that here). Both support direct attach, that is plugging the computer running the server software, directly to a DAC. When connecting the server directly to the DAC it is turning the computer into dual-purpose use of both server and digital transport.
AirLens is a digital transport.
Octave Server will be the server.
The combination of the two, connected to a DAC, complete a digital playback system.
We’ve got a decent amount of information about which servers AirLens will support (but not complete, not promises). We don’t really have any information about Octave Server as a product yet so any sort of pre-release evaluation will be difficult. And, with a server the interface and how it manages the library is the most important bit. I’d want to see at least a walkthrough of the interface before I got excited.
Hope that helps.
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nice summary, that.
Will it have a phono input???
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We have systems with analog and digital sources in multiple living environment rooms, ie. no dedicated listening rooms with room treatments.
The systems are multi source like Vinyl + CD + local streaming + internet streaming + TV(set top box) + game console etc.
The NAD Integrated power and pre amps we have utilize Dirac just prior to the analog output stage of a pre amp sections. That way, every source signal, whether analog or digital is treated equally to match the room better. It does involve AD conversion for analog sources, but it’s done that good that the new NAD’s outperform the analog options I owned before.
Great is also that I can even share the vinyl through the house, such that if I need to walk between the living room and home office, I can enjoy the music regardless where I am.
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I have only ever used one box. Either a streamer with network connectivity to a NAS drive (I have NAS drives in the house for other reasons), or a streamer/server.
I currently (last 3 years) use Innuos. It has 4tb storage, can play using the Roon transport or its own Innuos transport. It is extremely low noise and the data output is galvanically isolated. It is a server that over the years has evolved into a superb streamer. It also has a disk ripper. It is probably the most versatile product around, whereas other manufacturers go for a more specific functionality, such as pure streaming.
There is no need to have more than one box, but until these PSA products are launched, how they will fit in a system is just guesswork.
My Devialet Expert was made in 2010, had a hardware upgrade in 2016 and only became fully Roon RAAT in 2019. The Innuos Mk3 was purchased in Feb 2019, but the Innuos Streamer only arrived (free software upgrade) in late 2021. So for me a key feature is continuous product development.
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The ability to do EQ and correct phase is essential to get the best out of speakers and amplification (regeneration is also essential of course) in a given room. The Australian company DEQX have been making digital crossovers and equalisers for well over ten years (they’ll be replacing their range in 2022). Dirac does much the same as the DEQX software - I’ve even considered adding a minidsp DDRC-22D into my digital chain. My DEQX crossover has an excellent ADC so I can feed my phonostage and AVR left/right channels into my main system.
The only reason I didn’t buy an Innuos yet is, that it has too much inside that I don’t need (e.g. ripper, hard disk).
That’s what I like at Paul’s approach, to offer two units for exact purposes. I just hope that’s the only difference and no further SQ relevant ones, as they are offered within the same product line.
I hope the goal is to offer two units that only differ in their functionality and that customers are later not baited to buy the bigger server due to other sound quality relevant measures only the server will have and which are independent of the add. functionality.
I hope the goal is not, to offer one cost cut and one high end unit. Then it shouldn’t be in the same product line, but one in the Stellar and the other in the Perfect Wave line.
But also with regard to the strategic direction of these products, we continue to learn few details.
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But there could be just as many, and probably more, who are wishing for the exact opposite of what you are, right? Frankly, looking at their lineup I’d bet they go for the approach you argue against, but we shall see.
On other hand, in a different thread James said no Stellar releases in 2022, so perhaps you will get your wish.
Could see benefits to either approach
That streamer and server will be in the Petfect Wave line, Paul said long ago. If there will later be a Stellar streamer is unknown, but imo probable.
My wishes go in the direction, that there is no Stellar streamer put into the Perfect Wave line.
I understand that some now want a streamer that’s as affordable as possible, but my argument is, that’s what the Stellar range is for.
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@ipeverywhere thanks for your informative and thoughtful explanation. So it looks like the PSA solution is going to be AirLens + Octave Server. It seems that is likely to provide all that is needed to rip/digitize, store, catalog and play my CD collection.
Am I assuming accurately that the Server will have Octave software that allows me with my iPad to view/find/select/play the contents of my collection; have the option of opting to subscribe to Roon for management and access to other online sources of digital content like Tidal/Qobuz/Spotify; and perhaps access an external NAS?
I’m guessing the cost of AirLens + Octave server may approach from below that of the Innuous Statement, which seems an equivalent product in one box that is available now (but with Innuous OS rather than Octave OS).
@stevensegal thanks for your guidance. It looks like the Innuous ZENith MkIII (~$6K) or Statement (gak~$16K) are examples of the all-in-one solution, with the advantage that they are available now (vs. PSA in maybe 2+ years).
Are you happy with your Innuos box? May I ask which model you have?
Can anyone direct my attention to equivalent products by other manufactures?
Addendum: Another pathway occurs to me. Buy a low end Innuos ZENmini MKIII (~$1600) and use it to rip my CD collection onto its HDD. Then when the preferred PSA products become available, transfer the HDD files to the PSA Server. Is that likely to be possible? Would I lose sound quality by ripping via the cheaper product and then transferring the digital files in that way? Seems in theory that lossless digital files should be fungible, but presumably the premium quality equipment adds some refinement somewhere along the transmission chain (although I don’t know at what stage). It would be dumb to rip the whole collection and then do it again on better equipment 2 years later.
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You don’t lose sound quality during the rip, as long as you are ripping bit-perfect. Innuos gives WAV and FLAC as options, you will get more from other systems. What differs are the databases that different systems uses, which MAY impact on the metadata that you get. You can adjust the metadata, for which Roon is brilliant, but apps like MP3Tag provide more labour-intensive options.
As mentioned earlier, Bluesound Vault and Innuos ZenMini Mk3 offer fast, efficient ripping at a very similar prices and both are Roon Ready. So if the cost is OK, and you want to rip a large CD collection, that would be my choice. I’ve tried the computer route and it is a real pain. With Bluesound or Innuos there are no buttons to press, just slip the disc in and when it comes out it is done. You can make a stack and do it almost subconsciously.
I wouldn’t consider either devices a poor streamer. Not by a long shot.
I have the Zen Mk3 because I wanted 4TB storage, very expensive with SSD. SATA drives are physically noisy, but are well damped in the Innuos and (@jazznut) powered down when not in use. SSD drives are electrically noisy, which is why the Zenith Mk3 has an additional internal linear power supply - dedicated to powering the SSD storage chip.
Innuos did some customer research and, based on that research that they were popular, retained the ripping drive in the Mk3 models. They hardly add anything to the cost and it avoided any retooling of the case.
Although I have a Zen Mk3, it can be upgraded to Zenith Mk3 and the price I was quoted is basically the same as the difference in the new price of the two products.
I assumed the Octave server would be a full streamer as well, and that the AirLens is a standalone streamer. Hence I assume the two products would overlap. It’s just guesswork until the products are released.
If you buy the ZenMini Mk3 (or Bluesound Vault), they can be used purely as a network server for a separate streamer (that is the case with Innuos, it must be the case with Vault). This is a common approach with Innuos users, although often it is used as a Roon Core. If the AirLens can’t attach to a network server like a ZenMini, then it would be pretty useless.
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The Innuos Statement is a different beast.
The comparison should probably be to the Innuos Zenith Mk3. PS Audio own a few of them, so they are probably doing the comparison themselves.
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My Antipodes.Audio DX had a built-in ripper and SSD and was a Roon Server. They have lots of new products now. My neighbour has the top-end K50 that costs fifteen thousand. But I think there are fewer and fewer new products that have CD rippers in general, as decent quality is finally available via streaming.
I started ripping my CDs over ten years ago. Today, if I did not already have a big library myself, I would just use Tidal to stream CD quality. I would still rip my own DVD-Audio and Blu-Rays, but use a ripping service for SACD (DSD).
Critical for me is to confirm that the AirLens can pull DSD files from my NAS. Would like to hear about this from PS Audio.
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Yes the server internal measures of Innuos are quite convincing (for those who want and need a server), I had a very long and detailled talk with one there. And a well made server (if the disk space available is sufficient for the customer and he wants to pay the internal storage price) has advantages against a pure streamer with attached NAS.
Anyway I personally prefer the streamer/NAS combination and will see what information we get about the Airlens. That it will certainly be attachable to the network was pointed out by Paul multiple times.
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That would make sense. To compare the later server (maybe already the Airlens) to the Zenith.
The Airlens should otherwise be compared to the Aries etc.
By the amount of other early talk (partly half a decade in advance) about products here, I assume the restraint in this case, not only about details but also goals, means that much is still in discussion (short before release 
)
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I agree. At the time I was looking for a Roon server I had an old and clunky 16TB SATA QNAP TS-451. I still use it as a photo library backup. It’s useless for Roon as it is too slow. So I bought the Innuos as it covers all bases.
About 6 months later I bought an 8TB SSD QNAP TS-473, which is lightning fast and brilliant. It’s a business machine and I use it primarily for that. If I’d had that at the time I would have used it as the Roon Core and library server, and bought a pure streamer, a dCS Bridge.
The Aries are very good, I used them for years. The Aries with Femto clocks did not like my Devialet Expert - which also reclocks. There was the occasional clicking. So I sold it and used my Aries Mini and there were no problems with that at all.
The Aries Mini was incredibly good and cost me £350 new (I think it was $500). My suspicion is that Auralic scrapped it because it was far too good value for money and was undermining their more expensive products. I still have it - my son has been using it since I got the Innuos. Auralic’s cheapest product is now the G1 streamer at £2,300.