@stevensegal - you really should take this up with Michael Fremer.
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I noted this would be a good product for my son, or anyone with difficult to drive speakers (not me).
My issue here is clearly with Fremer, not PS Audio. Having used Class D for 10+ years, the gap in the market is for high quality at a lower price than the premium products from Bel Canto, Mola Mola, Devialet etc. We will not find out from Fremer, but there are other reviews in the pipeline according to Paul.
I do have an issue with the market placement. The most popular music genre in the USA is Hip Hop/Rap, more popular than Rock, and that’s been the case for a few years. If younger people like my son who love that sort of music wanted to get into audio, a 600W Class D would be great, because it’s bass heavy. $6,000 may be affordable for Snoop Dogg, but it isn’t for my son. The price is high because PS Audio has added some component tweaks, but is also taking the dealer profit. Fremer said there is nothing comparable for the price. There are quite a few things, like the superb Cambridge Audio Azur 851W Class A A/B hybrid monoblocks at 500w/8ohms, and they are a little over half the price ($3,400).
There have been quite a few comments “M1200 or BHK”. To me they are too close in price.
My idea would be to simplify the product, drop the price dramatically and sell loads of them based on the premium PSA brand name. Plenty of high-end companies have been doing that, very successfully. However, I’m sure PSA’s marketing people have their reasons.
Incidentally, I have owned several PSA products. I seriously thought about the Stellar Phono, spoke to the dealer, but it seemed overpriced. I bought something else and shortly afterwards the Stellar Phono price was reduced by 20%. It was also before any independent reviews, so a bit of an unknown quantity. It has since had an excellent review in HiFi News. Had it been today, I would probably have bought it.
Steven. Buddy. You’re completely free to voice your opinions on the reviews or products and I do realize you haven’t directly criticized the products. This isn’t about that.
However, do you think it’s fair to generalize “younger” people’s music taste? That’s very ignorant. People are into all kinds of music, regardless of their age. Mainstream music sales will never be an accurate indicator of what music enthusiasts prefer in their hifi systems.
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Wow, all this negative energy is barely tolerable…just carry on making leading products for the buck, Darren…and a few podcasts inbetween 
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I thoroughly enjoyed the beta testers video Scott posted. It makes me a little sad I didn’t test them, but it would have been a waste of a beta set to have sent it to me as I didn’t have the time this year to give them the shake-out they deserved. They truly sound like a game changer, and kudos to Darren and the entire PS Audio team for yet another home run.
Mike
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Keep on Darren keeping on …you are doing a fab job of it!!!
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I refer you to the attached research of the US Music Market.
https://musicbiz.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/MusicConsumptionTheOverallLandscape_AudienceNet.pdf
You say “people are into all kinds of music, regardless of their age”.
According to the data on page 37, HipHop/Rap is the most polarised genre in the US market, being the preferred choice of 10 times more people in the age range 16-24 than those 65+. HipHop/Rap is the most popular genre in the USA. I’ve seen at least 3 surveys to that effect.
And what is a “music enthusiast”? On page 9 the survey shows that music is the preferred media choice of only 11% to 17% of respondents, and only 12% of the most economically active. Do you mean HiFi Enthusiast? Almost half of music enthusiasts listen on their phone or radio for all ages, and CD only gets over 10% at age 65+.
It is clear that what people listen to and how they listen to it is hugely age-dependent. There are other surveys online, but I’ve not seen one better than this. I remain of the view that the M1200 and its prodigious grunt is likely best suited to the type of music preferred by younger people. I was not the only person to note that the M1200 infomercial featured a group entirely of white male seniors.
Why is this relevant? Only because I am interested in the marketing side and who businesses are making products for.
To put the matter straight on my alleged PS Audio bashing, since I started to change audio about 12 years ago I’ve owned perhaps a dozen component brands, and for new products purchased PS Audio is equal first with Harbeth at 3. One thing I won’t do is buy a product for the badge on the front.
The M1200’s were voiced with a multitude of genres and they’re incredibly genre agnostic. Somehow I have an idea of how the amps sound
Since you seem very confident in your opinion of the SQ and characteristics of the M1200’s, I do have a few questions for you:
What did you think about the M1200s when you heard them? You thought they were bass heavy, as you’ve previously stated. Anything else to add to that?
Also what speakers did you listen to them on? Any other set up details?
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I understood from Steven‘s post, he never heard the M1200s and just theorizes about how a 600W amp could sound. Aside of that, my theory of a 600W Class D amp related to bass would be the opposite: better bass control than almost any amp at any price.
The only connection to „bass heavy“ I see, is that it might be an ideal pairing for a possibly bass heavy, less efficient speaker.
Darren Myers - asks the forum’s top pundit stevensegal to explain in-depth how Darren got it all so wrong with the design of his Hip-Hop / Rap / SLAM - noise box: jazznut informs us stevensegal hasn’t actually listened to the M1200’s; so why in hell does SS regale us with tediously long, messianic orations, when he is just “speculating” on how a product will sound when he has no direct firsthand knowledge.? That’s just plain stupid, also a waste of time and energy…
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I would like to think that this, at least, is not true. Your move @stevensegal.
It would be instructive, with regard to the subject back-and-forth, if you would clarify whether you have any personal experience with the M1200’s.
Otherwise, @badbeef was a little too close to the mark with his “ASR” jab.*
What say you?
[*I’ll speak for myself in stating that one of the most objectionable things about some of the lead dude’s reviews and the often rabid responses thereto over at ASR is that products are downright vilified without the benefit of ANY actual/subjective (listening experience). As far as I am concerned, when this occurs over there it is immature, arguably dishonest, and, ironically, anti-intellectual behavior.]
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Wow ! I haven’t been in the forums in a couple days and I see I’ve missed stuff. Darren’s designs are awesome and I do miss my Stellar Amps and hope one day to be able to afford a pair of M1200’s used (a pair is/was for sale on TMR).
My rig has changed but that has nothing to do with Darren’s work. How the F does someone have the Cahone’s to crticize an Engineer of Darren’s growing status without having actually listened to his work ?
We called them “Armchair Engineer’s” back in the day !
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They ain’t got nutin’ better going on to do…
Sadly
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Oh, no, David, don’t be sad - he has stuff to do. By his own admission, the guy who regularly berates PS for costing too much in Europe is auditioning Wilson Sabrinas this weekend. I’m sure they’re a bargain over there.
Hopefully he’ll ask the dealer if speaker sensitivity spec translates into “easy to drive” in the case of Wilsons. I’m confident the dealer will tell him he can get top performance out of them with any old amp. Again,
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It goes like this :
I once had a room mate named guesser,
and every day he knew lesser and lesser…
Then one day an accident no fault of his
own… he knew nothing at all…
Today he is a professor…
Sound familiar ?
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If all PS Audio prices in the UK were reasonable, the main dealers would not have to discount them, which is often the case. When I was looking to buy a DSD DAC, I looked at the Directstream but it was £6,300, over $9,000 at the time, when US customers were paying half that, with trade-in options, and I had a PS Audio DAC I couldn’t sell. The Directstream DAC is now reduced to £4,800, almost the same as the USA price. The M1200 are £6,000, about double comparable products. The PS Audio products I’ve bought (all new) were fairly priced at the time.
PSA’s UK prices always seem to start £1=$1, the come down, so I expect the M1200 price will fall.
My dealer loaned me a pair of Focal Utopia III Evo. Not my kind of sound and he explained they really needed more power. Wasn’t going there. He knew I liked the Sasha DAW, which I heard at a demo they did last year, with Trilogy 995R amplifiers - they don’t sell “any old amplifier”. He set up Wilson Sabrina with my amplifier in a room the same size as mine, plugged in my usb, gave me the iPad and left. My wife turned up 45 minutes later, thought the speakers were works of art, she loved the sound and told me to buy them. So I did. They were a bargain as they are an ex-demo pair. She left more excited than me and also wanted to buy their furniture.
Not that you care, this is the second product I’ve bought this year, both without reading a review or looking at a measurement. I doubt Wilson speakers get measured at ASR.
And you’re driving these with a $1000 dollar amp?
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Unbelievable…
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