Curious on any updates so far? I’ve been looking to see if there are other manufacturer that uses similar speakers arrangement (folded ribbon, mid bass coupler, powered sub) and stumbled across Legacy Audio. The Focus XD and Aeris seems to be the closest to PS Audio offerings. They even have dsp room correction through their wavelet DAC.
I’m curious how PSA FR-30 will compare to these, seems like the closest competitor. I much prefer the Legacy esthetic.
Good observations and questions. The Aeris is an excellent speaker; I’ve owned a pair for the last 5 years, and just upgraded to the Legacy Valor. I also prefer the Legacy aesthetic, but there is something retro-funky about the FR30 that I also like.
Do you run their Wavelet with your Valor’s?
Jeff, the Valors arrive today. The Wavelet tomorrow. It’s my intention to run the Wavelet in full room correction mode. I plan to test the Wavelet in two configurations: (1) running as a full DAC without the Vivaldi stack; and (2) as a crossover/DSP unit only with the Vivaldi stack and Townshend pre.
For my five years with the Aeris, I tried the Wavelet as both DAC/DSP and DSP-only. I preferred the latter, both with my PSA DS and my Vivaldi stack. I briefly experimented with a preamp/amp combo without the Wavelaunch [predecessor to the Wavelet], and, while it was not awful, I was not pleased with the results. And the Wavelet sealed it. It was much easier to use, and produced superior room correction results. I have used a variety of room correction techniques over the years, and none has come close to the Bohmer process built into the Wavelet. In addition to RC, the Valor/Wavelet combo offers several other features, including their SUT. I am looking forward to trying those out.
As near as I can tell, it’s not possible to run the Valors without the Wavelet, or at least some sort of electronic crossover; well, I suppose you could use a passive one as well, but why? So, perhaps you are referring to using the Wavelet only as a crossover, i.e., without the DSP room correction? I will no doubt try it that way, but room correction with the Wavelet has been so good, that I will be surprised if I want to keep it that way. I know some commenters, especially over at Audiogon, have described a DSP sound they don’t like. Their ears may be better than mine; I have not found it objectionable. And with the Aeris, I did not find the A>D>A conversion objectionable.
Paul, after your announcement today in Paul‘s post, that the FR-30 won’t have an active bass anymore, I just made a check list of the initial main design goals/features and how they developed. I added „yes“ what I think is still a goal, added „dropped“ what seems to have been dropped and made a question mark, where I’m not sure if this is still favored by Chris. Seems he was not so convinced about much of the initial design.
ribbons for tweeter and mids yes
AMT ribbons dropped
servo woofers dropped
active bass dropped
DSP bass control and adjustment option to room acoustic dropped
Non vented but anyway full range design?
line source at least still planned for the bigger speakers ?
midbass coupler ?
midbass coupler adjustable?
backfiring tweeter ?
backfiring tweeter adjustable (down to 0)?
planned MSRP lower than the initial planning due to the dropped activation?
Therefore new design element: passive radiators
Could you answer the ? for the current state of predecisions?
A move of PS Audio I truly do not appreciate.
So what is still going to be so special about those 20k$+ speakers.
The speakers come closer and closer to existing main stream designs that already exist.
If you don’t use your own technical knowledge or judgment you could feel rather fooled, having watched the countless Paul’s Videos that prompted the dropped options.
It becomes hard to believe what is being said anymore.
Dropping the active Sub Woofer part pleads for necessity of additional active subs.
The near to the wall adjustment feature is out too without DSP controlled sub.
For 20k one can get Special features that sound and look very good:
I know it should be all about SQ. But any of the above including the dropped proposals by PS Audio would have rendered the ultra high power BHK’s obsolete unless that amp technology would have been applied in the speakers.
Perhaps this is a move to keep on justifying the need for the big separate power amps.
If you have enough space that’s fine.
It has occurred to me that a full range passive speaker is going to be in one large heavy box, rather than the two box semi-active FR 30 design, which is going to make direct selling with home auditions a little tricky.
We had dinner last night in a restaurant opposite my favourite high end dealer. They are doing a refit and had Wilson Yvette and Tune Tots standing at the front near the window. When I suggested I rather liked them, she started laughing and gave me a look like “it’s them or me, not both”. That’s women and speakers.
Oh yes, the priority is on the spouse I hope.
One tricky issue, her taste seems to shift from time to time, so there is always a “little” negotiation involved. 
@jazznut and @Rudolf_Appel just curious if you are in the market for new speakers in this price range. Yes @Paul has shared a detailed peek behind the curtain as it were, so expect some ugliness in the “making of the sausage”. This “journey” is very rarely shared with the general public, let alone prospective customers probably for reasons as evidenced here.
Until a design is truly optimized and ready for production there can be significant changes. Would you rather have PS Audio stick to a design to satisfy some arbitrary sense of continuity or get on with making the “best” speaker as they see fit?
Yes, you’ve got some of this right.
The FR-30, now called the FR-80, has four 8” woofers on the front baffle of the lower enclosure. On each oof the sides of the lower enclosure is a huge passive radiator made from MDF with a crazy surround designed by Chris (it is oval shaped and covers 50% of the cabinet sides). On the upper cabinet is a ribbon tweeter and a 10” planar ribbon midrange. On the rear of this cabinet is another ribbon tweeter.
There’s no electronics other than the completely passive crossover and it looks physically very different than what you’ve seen of the FR-30.
Thanks, Kurt. Yes, we have received a great deal of flack for showing the internal sausage works (vegetarian sausages only). I have gotten slammed from all sides: internally, and externally. The new designs are finished and I’d love to share the new look and driver configurations with folks but, alas, because of all this hubbub I have promised our internal team I will not do so until appropriate beautiful photographs are ready. Sigh.
Oh well. Not my style but I am going along with the flow.
That is PS Audio’s fullest right. They can do anything within the context of the regulations.
But if they try to convince the public about the benefits of technology / principle, which is something different than just showing what you have. It is also the public’s fullest right and a natural reaction to provide feedback and comment in case those principles change over time.
Whether or not my income is sufficient to buy such speakers is none of your business, it only becomes the dealers business when the deal becomes closed and I would like to receive the speakers and the dealer would like to receive the money.
Or is there a minimum income level to participate in this forum? Maybe I missed it. If I weren’t interested in the speakers I would not waste my time to comment here. I have been following the development closer than you think.
Paul, does this mean the FR80 will be significantly cheaper than FR30 since it dropped the DSP software development cost as well as active amp cost for the sub? I am in the camp of hoping it is.
Also looks like mid bass coupler design is dropped too?
Can’t say I don’t feel somewhat disappointed at the AN to FR80 evolution, seems to me the design goals are not being taken seriously. This is a Chris speaker and not a Paul/PS Audio speaker. I understand that changes are a natural part of development, but if you set out to build a fighter jet and ended up with a cargo plane, that’s more than just development changes.
This did start as an AN design project with specific features, such as active servo bass, line stage, ribbon midrange, mid-bass coupler. For better or worse, it was a design objective. Most of that went out the window and the FR-30 had side-mounted pairs of drivers. That’s now gone as well, with front mounted drivers and side mounted radiators. So completely new cabinet design required.
After quite a few years, it would just be nice to see an interesting and good performing product come to market.
As far as my interests are concerned, I use passive speakers, but in the future would probably not consider anything other than an active speaker with some DSP.
I really enjoyed following the sausage-making. I watch factory-tour videos too. I am bummed a few criticasters spoiled it for the rest of us.
Really, really disappointed to see the room correction feature get dropped. This is something that many rooms would benefit from. I know mine certainly would.
Hmmmm. I just saw a video from Paul and Chris comparing/contrasting ports vs. passive radiators, and which is better. Guess I understand now why they were talking about the two options.
Thanks much Paul!
So I updated my list further down below according to what I understood and there are just a few open questions left.
I’m sure you must have had more than good reasons to go so far from the initial AN design concept, as we all remember how convinced you were of every single feature. I also was, especially of the idea of a possible matching to room acoustics by the DSP bass and mid bass coupler, as well as the at least partly active concept, which is now all gone.
For sure you will still make a very special passive speaker if you are willing to drop all those previous intentions. Just for some (as me), a major benefiit and USP has vaporized, that’s life
I’d certainly be most interested in the reasons for those decisions and what downside all those plans had for you (SQ-wise, but maybe also others).
Here a few assumptions in advance:
(sequence by probability in my perception)
.
.
.
The list:
ribbons for tweeter and mids? yes, still planned
backfiring tweeter? yes, still planned
AMT ribbons dropped
servo woofers dropped
active bass dropped
DSP bass control and adjustment option to room acoustic dropped
Non vented but anyway full range design dropped,
instead „kind of vented“ with passive radiators
midbass coupler ? dropped
midbass coupler adjustable? dropped
line source at least still planned for the bigger speakers ?
backfiring tweeter adjustable (down to 0)?
planned MSRP lower than the initial planning due to the dropped activation?
I’m not really in the market for a new speaker currently, but I was extremely interested in how it was planned and it was not out of imagination that this speaker could be be of more concrete interest in future.
I also don’t criticize the diversified history or the changing beliefs after all this time, but enjoy following what’s offered.
Meanwhile it’s just very interesting to know about the why‘s, as far as many of us went with this storyline and own preferences around it. But I also understand if Paul has to be a bit more reservated with his extremely early, open and changing comentatorship and convictions. Managing is living with and deciding about change…I understand this.
The bass units seem to have shrunk from 12” to 8”.