Standing a P15 on end?


#1

Any thoughts on whether a P15 (or P12 for that matter) can safely be operated standing vertically on its side? I’ve been running a P3 in this orientation for over a year without incident, but given the different arrangement of heat sinks on the P15 and P12, I thought I’d ask.

As you can see, floor real estate in my listening room is at a premium, making it easier for me to stand the unit up on end (you see the P3 there next to the heat register), rather than trying to find a full 17x14 space for it.


#2

The one thing that I can think of that may pose an issue is the large heat sinks on the sides. They are the cooling mechanism for these beasts and get quite hot. I would be concerned that placing the P15 on its side would negatively impact the units ability to dissipate heat since airflow would be greatly reduced on the side contacting the floor surface.


#3

It really depends on power and heat. Generally the Power Plants do get hot so it’s likely ok. If it gets hot, then too much but my guess is you’ll be fine.


#4

My P20 gets no more than warm. Nothing like my high bias 150 watt amp which heats the room.
I’d try it.


#5

Surely a P12 would suffice? I have one of those units and it draws next to no power.


#6

Well stevensegal, that’s a very good question. Certainly, the P12 has advantages for standing on-end – not least because it has a fan! But I’m not sure whether the P15 would be significantly better for my use case. I’m powering a Devialet 1000 Pro, which is dual mono, 1000w/ch into 6 ohms, max continuous power consumption 600W, max peak consumption 3000W (this presumably for microseconds from internal caps, since US wall power won’t cover that).

The output stage on the Devialet is Class D, so highly efficient compared to typical power amps. So far, I’ve actually managed just fine with the PS Audio P3, which shows that the Devialet draws 56W at reasonable volumes. But I’m thinking that the question is whether I can get significant improvements by stepping up to a larger Power Plant, whether because it will better handle short peak demands or because of the lower output impedance of the new units.

So, that’s the dilemma – P12 or P15 for these high-power (but also high-efficiency) Devialet DAC/pre/amps.


#7

I have a 250 Expert Pro, so half your system, on a P3.

Devialet’s wording is all ab out maximum capability and is reflected in its extreme transient capability. It is not a level of power that could be sustained by domestic speakers, probably even your M3s.

There is an explanation on Devialetchat:

The above text refers to the power supplies maximum capability. So with the amplifier running at its’ absolute maximum, the power supply will need no more than 1200w continuously, which is about 5 amps in the UK or Europe, and even with 110v in the USA is less than 11 amps. To be clear, these are maximums, with most domestic listening the figures will be considerably lower, probably nearer the 1 amp or so level. Consider that most speakers will only cope with 100w to 400w continuously. If you did manage to run 1200w into your speakers on a continuous basis then melted voice coils are more likely to be your problem that the amplifier demanding too much current.

4 kw is a LOT of power, it is the kind of power that something like an electric oven, a patio heater, or large room heater would use. Devialet’s get hot, but not hot enough to heat your living room in winter or roast a whole chicken.

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-220-power-supply

On top of that, I’ve spoken to Devialet and they do not recommend power regeneration or conditioning, but it doesn’t stop people like you and me using it.

I’m in touch with their Chief Engineer, I’ve half a mind to ask for a definitive option from the person who designed the power supply and amplification.

I use the P3 because of the potential benefit of lower impedance. Again, whether that makes any difference I’ve not come to any conclusions.

So I really can’t believe that the 1,250w or 1,500w think will make a difference as we are not talking continuous demand and the maximum power is almost certainly not continuous and when it is needed is is coming from internal reserves.


#8

I would go P15 and stand it on end. You’ll have much better performance.


#9

P12 and P15 specs look much the same. Is there a clear reason why the P15 is that much better, obviously the P12 better suits flohmann’s space issues.

It’s a very nice set-up, although if those are M3’s, they do have thunderous bass for a box speaker. Paul may be paying a visit!


#10

I’d love to! Specs don’t tell the whole story. Often times, not even much and I wish that weren’t true. Each of the models, from the 12 through the 20, sound progressively better and noticeably so. A look inside will give evidence of why: bigger power supply, greater energy storage, more output devices, lower impedance.


#11

This was the modest little set-up we were listening to, with the reference Vertere turntable. Was the only pair of M3 in the UK at the time.

Has flohmann ordered his P15 yet? You could offer to deliver it personally.


#12

Thanks for the advice, Paul. I will have to do some careful measurement and see if I can perhaps get the P15 behind that chair there, in its regular orientation. :slight_smile:

stevensegal, in my system, the P3 clearly improves the sound. I wish it didn’t, as I would love a simpler system with fewer boxes. But I tried it, and I couldn’t live without it. I expect the P15 might move that ahead a few notches…


#13

Just checking back in here to say that I went with the P15 and it’s a clear upgrade from the P3. I’d describe the difference as watching the play on a very high def flat screen vs. watching the play in the theater. Deeper soundstage, more vivid presentation. Interestingly, the low frequencies were no different. It was the midrange that really came to life.

This marks my fourth PS Audio power product (P300, PPP, P3, now P15). Indispensable products for getting the most from my systems in urban San Francisco. Thanks to Paul and the PS Audio gang.


#14

Thanks for letting us know and I am delighted the changes were so obvious.

I just changed from a P10 to a P20 on a couple of my amps in Music Room Two and was again astounded how much better things sound.


#15

Do you mean it is better to use P15 instead of 12 if the money is no issue?


#16

I neglected to mention that the power unit is intended for the front, pre amp, dac and etc.


#17

Yes, I would certainly suggest that and extend it to the P20. Each of the models in the Power Plant line sound noticeably better than the other as you work your way up the chain - regardless of what you’re driving with them.

So, for example, if you are just powering source equipment it will sound noticeably better on a P20 than a P12 despite the fact that from a power and cost standpoint it qualifies as excess.


#18

Thanks. Then how about feeding both the front and the main amp from one P20? It seems somewhat waste only to feed the front from expense of P20. Or ideally P12 for the front and P20 for the amp?


#19

Those are certainly options and they will work great. My point is that the choices we make in regenerators have to do with sound quality and not wattage. The better the Power Plant the better the sound. Many will see this as wretched excess. And it likely is,
but then there are many things I have done in audio that are excessive just to get a few more ounces of performance.