So that diverges into two paths.
Spend the money on a streamer with a high level dac and output and conceivably have a two box system (Im thinking at minimum A10, Rose 250, Aurender 1000 etc)
OR.
A6 (master, gen 2 etc) USB out to Matrix w/clock, I2S to DAC and XLR to amp. That combo should come very close if not exceed the performance of many Streamer/Dacs to maybe 5k level or so? And if a A8 deal is found, all the better.
The PhoenixNET is the perfect mate of your ZEN, I used it and loved it for years.
Recently Network Acoustics is the brand I chose for my network:
There are 2 threads on this forum, you can read a lot (I also posted a comparison PhoenixNET vs Tempus).
You can also find a thread about LHY-SW switches, which provide also fiber isolation to the path, many members are going that route.
As for ethernet cables, I think they come after a good ethernet filter, after a good switch and most of all after a good PSU feeding the router. Yes, the router is the noisiest device and the real challenge for audio pollution! The stock SMPS must be replaced with a good linear power supply. Once again here I loved Sean Jacobs DC PSUs, he’s the designer of all the power supplies of the Innuos Statement, google it! Then I replaced it with Network Acoustics hybrid PSU.
And finally ethernet cables. Blue Jeans Cables are well known and respected if you want an affordable and performing solution.
I experienced a lot of brands, AudioQuest, Inakustik, Sablon, Argento Audio, Ricable, Synergistic Research.
My sweet spot is the combination (before and after the switch) of
A few members here like @dchang05 have reported good results also with Shunyata Omega Ethernet cable.
Do this! do this!
Selfishly, I would love to learn if you can hear the difference with the Matrix in the chain.
I had a Matrix X-SPDIF that I sold a year or two ago… I never tried it with the eversolo. Kinda wish I had!
wow - again, great info, really appreciate it. will take some time and go through everything in there - especially appreciate the order in which i should prioitize - hugely important for incremental changes to my setup. mahalos!
I don’t have the option to easily run Ethernet to my listening room. I use WiFi with outstanding results.
WiFi to A6 master edition
Benchmark media SPDIF to DS MKII DAC
Silversmith Fidelium XLRs to Orchard Audio amp
Since adding the Silversmith interconnects I compared my streaming to my vinyl chain and for the first time I prefer my streaming sound by a hair.
First of all, Thanks to everyone contributing. This is highly beneficial.
Thank you Luca for detailing cable, switch etc.
Im wondering at what point it even matters what I buy (at sub 2k) level IF Im only using the streamer/digital out?
Is a A6 or A8 (or A10!) better than a little AXN Cambridge…absolutely. But if Im only using the streamer in there, is there really much of a difference?
Im still leaning towards A6 Gen2 usb out.
However if i want to take a bigger leap…
Does anyone have experience with a transport only unit? The only one I know is the Rose 150. 5k new, 4k used. This makes sense if i am going to keep the external DAC going which may very well be the highest fidelity I can reach.
Anyone using a 1 box solution 5k or under?
Aurender1000?
Im wondering if solution #2 is gonna end up at 10k to match #1?
I vote A10.
If an “all-in-one” solution means a streamer, DAC and preamp in one device, that’s the route I went with. I started with the Cambridge Edge NQ, really a good thing for the price. Nubert probably also has a component that is said to be very good for the price. I would also look at NAD, Aurender.
I wanted more and ended up with the Marantz link-10n. However, this costs three times as much as previously mentioned. As with most high-priced components, the return does not equate to the higher price. Other candidates I had in my selection on the way up were Meitner MA3i, Moon 791 and Grimm MU2. I think the rest of the streaming chain is just as important, if not more important, than the choice of streamer itself. It starts with the internet provider: fiber or a high-speed connection. Then the modem, which has the highest potential for interference. Providers like Vortex offer solutions to reduce disruptions or make them more bearable for people. I’ve been talking to experts about it over the past few days. They said that a perfectly noise-free environment in the home can deliver a higher quality music experience than expensive components. I was advised to start troubleshooting this with the modem. A switch helps to process the signal. A switch from LHY is recommended as cost-effective. Depending on the situation, it makes sense to use fiber optic cables. A switch directly behind the modem, then with fiber optics to another switch and from there into the streamer. The ideal solution is to have a NA Muon Pro filter directly in front of the streamer with a high-quality Ethernet cable that has the right sound you like.
Greetings Andreas
This is THE question I think you initially posed. If you’re interested in a transport, ie streaming only, then any Eversolo or similar option is $ wasted on functionality you won’t use and there are better transport options. I don’t have any experience with the Cambridge Audio XN options, but my sense is they are generally well regarded, though the higher you stray from the AXN the more unused functionality they package.
Faced with the same question and also considering the two very different paths you’re struggling with, the consensus opinion I received was the DAC is much more important than the streamer. My sense, whatever that is worth, is the Eversolo as a streamer is on par with your AXN, BSN, Lumin U2 mini, and likely any comparable option. I came to the conclusion that, for my budget, the streamer isn’t going to be the weakest link.
If you want to go the transport route, you might consider a used Airlens, especially if you integrate Luca’s advice. I may not have heard a difference, but I demo’d an AL because I appreciated the focus and promise of delivering the quietest possible bit stream. Were it not for the software interface I may have kept it and followed a very different path than I am on now. And this would be my word of caution.
Regardless of the path you take, take stock of what you like about the AXN and what you wished it could do. As my first and only foray into streaming I got spoiled by the BlueSound app as it relates specifically to Radio Paradise and later Qobuz functionality. The Eversolo app so far is basically on par with BS. PSA doesn’t have a native AL app. There are UPnP apps like mconnect or jriver player that will work, but the AL is best pared with Roon.
I started looking into the Innuos Pulse Mini because the Sense App is well regarded and it appeared to provide some of the functionality I wanted. But I quit poking at it when I plugged in the A8.
For me the A8 fits my budget for a system that won’t be held back by the streamer and it provides functionality and i/o that I will use. For the money I have two very different systems. A8 XLR out to a power amp and USB out to the Schiit stack that has been my main system for the past 15 months. I can envision a future where the Schiit stack is replaced with A8 I2S out to a Denafrips Pontus or similar and tube pre that doesn’t break the budget. For me it’s about sq on a budget while maintaining a lot of flexibility.
Thanks Al. That would be fun but not sure even a A10 would be a stand alone. In other words sir, if a A10 digital out to Matrix/Dac sounds better than a A10 straight to my integrated, I’m not sure that is 3700 well spent. I’m getting to a point like you did with the cables- buy something that works and be done with it!. However I’m trying to get a really good configuration then work on a cable, front end etc.
And therein lies a rub of sorts. I have a great integrated… I don’t need another preamp. Nor do I really need a built in Dac. I’m ok with that feature though. It lets me experiment and it is dang near ubiquitous in a streamer these days. No one so far has come up with “I have a Aurender model xxx” and it will solve you problem. My guess is a Pink Faun 2.16 would do it. (I spent my $$ on the integrated as its my base, the PF will have to wait lol).
So Im going to go the Streamer/Matrix/DAC route. The Airlens would be a possibility but just as important to me as the performance is the app. If its a PIA to operate-no thanks. This is why I’m centering around Rose and Eversolo. I also hear the Conductor app (Aurender?) is pretty good. I only use Qobuz and Spotify at this point.
Im lost on the internet side… audio wise. I understand it though. I’m basic Comcast high speed. Good performance in this area. I use an eero which is close enough to run Ethernet cable. (I’ll look for a decent cable). I will review this thread and use it as a guide.
So I’m still at the A6 plan. Only other options I see up the ladder are A8, A1000 (Aurender) and Lumin2 mini. There should only be about 1,234 other options but its a start.
Snow and single digits today. Please do not throw me off the forum but for years I just used a PC. Jriver, Audirvana etc. Thought you streamer guys were nuts. I’m going to try again today just cause going anywhere is not optimal. Not so much as a solution, but as a comparison.
And BTW- What am I after? The best performance I can get… Comparable to what I had with the Rose 520 digital out to Matrix, I2S out to Jr, balanced out to amp. That my friends is the goal. I’m not there yet, but I know I can get there.
Thank you! Great stuff and we are on the same page. Also the Lumin 2 mini is a good looking possibility.
Happy to report after an hour with Qobuz and jRiver there is no comparison. The Streamer wins in every aspect, mostly low end. I really miss that interface. A really good streamer that had HDMI out is probably out there but I’m doing fine on phone and tablet.
hesitate to answer bc I have no personal experience, but I know the Lumin U2 (and U2 mini) is also transport only. I have heard great reviews, and it’s one I’ve considered getting for a while. But I really think the A6 with LPS upgrade through the external DAC sounds good enough to make me hold off scratching that itch.
EDIT: I missed that you mentioned the Lumin!
So i think the mini has usb out. The U2 certainly does. Seems like a great option. Also decent reviews on the app.
What is causing me confusion here is comments like the below which seems to be somewhat born out in my trail and error approach:
Streamers with digital output aren’t witchcraft.
Even the $100 WiiM Mini can provide bit-perfect digital output.
Those 2.5k/5k streamers will quite literally sound exactly the same.
There may be a good deal of truth in the above if your just using digital out. Obviously features, inputs, pre functions, app all worth $
WiFi here, too, as there’s no acceptable way to run cable from our gateway to the listening room. The Aurender requires a wired connection, so I have a mesh node in the room, with a short run of Cat5 from the node to the streamer. I can hear people’s gasps now, but it works fine for me. I don’t stream much except to “try out” albums for later purchase. Probably 90% or more of the Aurender’s use is playback from its internal files.
Pretty much every CD player has digital out, but I’d be willing to bet that, say, the PS Audio Transport would sound better than some $35 Sony from a big-box store.
However, trust your ears, not the MSRP, amiright?
(Maybe a disc spinner isn’t the best example, bc you have belts, mechanisms, motors, lasers, etc… that could contribute, but you get the idea.)
(there’s a point where I know I can’t tell the granular difference between this or that. So I’m happy letting those who CAN hear the difference play in that sandbox.)
Agreed. I think my best bet as this point is…
Eversolo A6 Gen 2.
This has upgrades i can use like power supply.
Also USB digital and XLR analog out.
Matrix…(my upgraded interface / clock)
DSJ
Not sure where id have to land to beat it. Then ill review this thread and evaluate if a cable or some sort of front end comms upgrades are suitable.
I wonder what the very best sub $500 streamer is.
Good question. Wiim or Bluesound. Eversolo A6 at <1k.
Another at 399 is Cambridge AXN. If you need one i got one.! The app works really well. Stream quality coax out is good.
As someone who has been from the bottom, Aries Mini, to the top, Aries G2.2, of the Auralic streamer only lineup I can assure they are not all the same sound or otherwise. Same is true of the also owned streamer only iFi Zen Stream with LPS and Holo Red. As the parts quality and design execution is not the same in any of them they can’t “all sound the same” I don’t care what the crowd on the never listen only measure forum think. Same is true of the combo units and I have owned ones from Teac, Lumin and Eversolo. If you don’t want to use third party software whether it be Roon, JRiver or others then pick the unit that has the software to do what you need with quality built hardware. The new Gen 2 at this point could be considered a bargain and if the ESS DAC is not for you then you still have the Jr. to use in it’s place. Their software has a couple of things that I don’t like but those are just me and most users love it. While it has full FLAC Radio Paradise, the one thing it doesn’t have yet is a quality Internet Radio app that lets you search and set stations by URL. I’m sure it’s coming if it matters to you. Also it works fine on either wired or wireless as I’ve used the A6 both ways.