OK, now is this a thing with the RELs? (Specifically if they use the high-level connections?)
Watching the REL marketing vids where the main engineering guy walks through each of their products, this hum/ground issue is discussed, so it must be pretty common.
Now, I’ll likely be using the low-level inputs, as I already have RCA’s that run to that location, so maybe it’s not an issue with that kind of connection.
I went from a single HSU sub to two REL S3/SHO subs. The RELs blend with my Spendor A7s wonderfully and disappear. Like others have stated, will not need to upgrade regardless of mains.
It can be using the high level (speaker tap) method of connection on a balanced or class D amplifier because the negative speaker tap is not a true ground tap, so one floats the ground wire on the REL connection.
To alleviate hum possibilities (probabilities?), one either grounds the REL to the amplifier chassis or runs a low level RCA cable from an unused RCA jack on the amp or preamp to an RCA input on the REL.
Hum should not be an issue if one uses a low level (RCA) connection to the REL.
The REL website explains much better than I did.
I love using REL’s high level (speaker) connection so that the woofers see exactly the same output signal that the Maggies get. It is a primary reason I chose REL as a mate.
here’s a question…
The integrated i’m currently using is a Cambridge Audio CXA80. 80 watts into 8 Ohms; 120W into 4 ohms.
It has a second set of speaker terminals, which is unused at this point.
I’m currently running several sets of speakers through a Niles SSVC-4 speaker selector connected to the A set of speaker outputs.
If I got the RELs, and wanted to try the high-level connections, would you connect the subs to the B set of terminals? Or because I already have multiple speakers coming off the A terminals, would you NOT use the high-level connection?
I’m playing through different scenarios in my mind about all this. (Not subwoofer specific, but it might influence that choice…)
One, obviously is replacing the Harbeths with the Maggies.
But another is that I’d keep the Harbeths in place, and use them with the Niles selector when all speakers are running, for general music in the house, when people are over, for parties, etc… And I’d connect the Magnepans to the B terminals, and only use that set during more critical listening sessions.
@terzinator. If I remember correctly you live in the Minneapolis area. I am a Maggie with 2 Rel sub guy. I would wait until you have the Maggie’s installed to see their position. They are easy to move around. The point I am trying to make is don’t put the cart before the horse. Your Maggie’s ideal position may surprise you which can have an impact on your sub placement and the type of sub. Also I have find that elevating the subs from the floor can have a big impact on reducing room nodes. Your two current subs may be enough. Happy to have you take a look at my setup if you desire.
An excellent “wireless” option is the RSL Speedwoofer 10s. It offers very flexible placement, is inexpensive ($450) and will outperform many 12 inch subs. It has many accolades and awards. I just got mine this week and am very impressed with its sound quality. Wireless eliminates ground hum, too.
I realize that elevating subs does not pass most WAF tests but it does help reduce room nodes that emanate from the floor. The middle of the driver is about 29% of the distance of the room height . I have some sub traps from ACS along with some tube traps on order to tame of the bass nodes in the room.
I can easily drop the subs and covert them into end tables, move the tables around, and shove the speakers in the corner to convert the Audio room into a normal living room in less than 3 minutes. No wife but need to make the room look normal when guests arrive.
Honestly, I have no idea WHY you’re set on REL as SECOND subwoofer to your Cambridge Audio sub. To me, they must match, it’s not as critical as both speakers being the same yet important. If you’re going with a dual setup, simplify your life and just get the same sub as your current one. I’d only switch to REL, IF you’re changing both subs.
BTW, I’ve owned a CXA-80 and it’s a HECK of an integrated for the price! Shockingly good for that package.
I’m thinking you maybe mis-read what I’ve been saying. Just to clarify, here are a few of my posts:
This I WILL agree with you on. I’ve been really happy with it. Bought it used (nearly new) for $400 and it hits waaaaay above that.
Definitely. Ordered the Maggies about three weeks ago so i should have them soon, I think. I do want to hear them first, for sure.
OK, sorry I missed that. Jeez, hard to answer. Only you or someone who’s auditioned the Cambridge Audio could answer that. I’d think the answer is no. Like I have a B&W Subwoofer now, and they’re great, not as good as REL, but do the job. If I wanted to add another one, I’d get the same. IF I wanted to change, then maybe get one REL and add a second in a cpl of years. Also, I feel like 125W on REL is under-powered, my small B&W PV1 is 500W!
PS. Does your dealer has both Subs to compare? If not, can you take your Cambridge Audio Sub to the dealer to compare them back to back? Maybe the only option available
I had a pair shipped to me in CT, so delivering to the US is not a big deal. Make sure they have full disclosure for Customs, including attestation that the chemicals used in assembling the cabinets abide by TSCA (toxic substance control act). Holly crap, you would think they would be more concerned with other “toxic” substances.
As for my vote: 2. After doing quite a bit of research and not being totally satisfied with what I have as subs, I decided to take a chance on BK, and why not. For the price of a pair shipped and custom-made . in Cherry (resembles the color you have for the Harbeths), It was just a bit more than a single REL T9i. Shipping was expensive, about a $100 each but when configured into the total price, it worked out for me. With a configurable 300W like the RELs, I get a 12" front-firing and 12" floor-facing passive. I gambled and very happy that I did.
BTW, I have mine hooked up to the post of the L & R speaker terminals(high level) individually. Plus, I also run an RCA cord from each of the subs to the AVR’s LFE (which can designated as L&R in the AVR’s configuration). You know the drill; I get the benefit of the source music in pure 2 channel listening as well as any LFE-designated signals when used as a home theatre.
Good luck!
As a temporary solution I moved my office subwoofer to the living room, so I have two of the smaller ones (minx x201) behind the magnepans. I put the larger one (minx x301) in the dining room. It sounds pretty good, but I do have to adjust the sub levels when I turn up the volume. Or if there’s bass-heavy music.
When we wake up on the other side of this nightmare, I may get some RELs, but it’s fine for now.
I would always go with two or more subs. That said, just putting two or more subs in without a crossover and then phase aligning them (individually) will not allow you to get the maximum benefits.
Could you elaborate?
Obviously each sub can be phased from 0 to 180, but does one make that call only by how it sounds? Or is it more scientific than that?
What should one listen for?
I had a couple of SVS PC subs that I had for 1 year then sold. The next owner also had those issues with both his plate amps after another couple years of service.
They do sound amazing in theater though. Never did use them in my 2 channel setup.
You can read the how and why at soundoctor.com. It is a very technical article but reading several times will help. The basics of the article is to use a crossover to make the subs subs and your speakers the mains (a true mains and subs setup). Otherwise you are just adding subs without the full benefits. Now with the crossover (JL Audio suggests crossing over at 80 Hz. Sounds high but trust me it works) in place you can do the phasing (I’m leaving other setup parts out but the article covers them). Phasing is done by doing one pair sub/main at a time as follows. Play a test tone through the one channel pair at the crossover point (say 80 Hz). Get between the sub and main’s woofer and adjust the sub volume to match the mains. Then put the sub and main out of phase (switch the speaker cables on the the main). Now play the tone again and where the frequency becomes weakest or nulls, that is your phase setting. Remember to switch back the speaker cables. Then you can adjust the sub volume as desired. There are more details as I said, but this is the basic. It is a game changer for subs.
SVS ,told my that There is no issues with their plate apps that they are very reliable. thank you for your response I didn’t think it was just me ,and to go through so many plate amps is very unsettling they are still on warranty but I think I am going to put them up for sale with full disclosure about the amp issues at a extremely reduced price. I just don’t wanna deal with it anymore I will pick up another pair of RELs.
