Technically all of the improvements affect the PCM and DSD paths identically - i.e. no changes were made to anything that’s PCM specific from Yale to Torreys.
Paul, will there be a full Roon Ready Torreys beta after this one?
Elk saidemailists said Louawalters. Pehaps you are in the best position to compare the Yale and Torrys since you can A/B it to the original LP. . . .could you try it and comment which OS most faithfully reproduces the LP? I think this could help determine of there are any frequency anomalies or of either is creating an MQA situation where there is some sort of enhancement.
Does anyone think this could be the best method of evaluating since the analog “master” is there for comparison instead of guessing which build sounds the best?
Given that Louawalters made the digital recording of the LP on his own equipment with which he can now compare, this appears to be a very solid test.
Im doing that now with the Lorde LP. Only problem is that i have made updates to my turntable since doind the original A to D. Should still see what version comes close to current system. The tweaks were essentially some HRS isolation for the table and a new platter.
Listened (in Yale) to Complete Nocturnes, John Field composer, Elizabeth Joy Roe pianist, on Decca, streamed via Tidal, HiFi (cd quality). Listened via Sonos Connect to Toslink. In Yale, I thought the piano wasn’t mic’d very well, but enjoyed the music so listened all the way through.
Then installed Torreys and noticed immediate difference. You could still hear the perhaps too much echo of the recording room, but even that was clearer; the piano was much better, less muffled. Terrific! Noticed difference right away.
Problems: When I switched to USB from Optical, no sound. Rebooted Directstream, USB worked, but only for about 2 minutes, then stopped. But sound was again much improved over Yale, more present. Listened to Glenn Gould playing Bach Goldberg Variations - Aria, original 1955 recording. Surprised at how much clearer the music sounded, especially given it’s an old release.
Went back to Yale for now.
Well, some bad news, going back and forth on the Lorde Lp to the 2xDsd there are significant differences, but those differences are not related to Yale or torreys (at least i dont think so) its due to the new massive platter and HRS isolation and mat for my turntable. Also my Sumiko Palo Santos was re tipped in between. My tests are not a good test base without re digitizing, which wont happen today as the kids will be up soon from their afternoon nap. Next weekend is a long one here in Canada, plus I have booked a few extra days off work. If time permits I will re-digitize the Lorde LP, so that Im able to do an apples-to-apples comparison. The Lp sounds significantly better, but at 2x DSD it should sound transparent, the equipment has changed and that is what I am hearing.
Actually, I find this to be fun news and good. Everything is working as it should. 
OK, I was getting ready to write a very long-winded sound comparison between Torrys, Yale, and 1.21 (even though you guys don’t care about this version). But before I could get started, I encountered my first significant bug.
I’m not sure of the precise repro scenario just yet, but after disconnecting the SP/DIF input from my Oppo 103/Vanity HD, and subsequently re-connecting it, I found that the Torrys DS no longer recognizes a DoP signal, and that it is now only seeing it as a 24/172 PCM signal, and I get no sound. Yes, the green sync indicator is lit. Note: I forgot to turn the DS to stand-by mode prior to pulling SP/DIF connection to it (as I normally do).
I have tried switching it in and out of stand-by, but nothing has changed. I tried switching it between the Tolink and the Sp/DIf Input as well, but it still displays 24/176 PCM for DoP signals.
Then I tried playing a redbook CD via from the Oppo, and the input now says 24/44.1 (this is normal for the Vanity HD Card), but I still get no sound. And yes the green sync indicator is lit, and the mute is DEFINITELY unmuted (yes I toggled it as well).
I then switched the input to Toslink and attempted to play a redbook CD from my Sony SACD player. Again I get a green sync light, and it says 16/44.1, exactly as it should. But again, no sound.
The next logical step seems to be to reboot. But I’m hesitating to do so just in case there is anything else which might be learned while the DS is still in this state. Ted, please let me know if you want me to try anything else before rebooting. I’ll wait perhaps an hour max for a response, but then I’m going to reboot the unit if I don’t see a response.
[Edit] - I got impatient and decided to just reboot. Everything is working as expected again.
Decided to keep trying Torreys, in optical, since USB didn’t work much.
After listening to a few more different albums, the clarity of Torreys over Yale is apparent, but the sound of the piano in the John Field Nocturnes recording mentioned above became too sharp, especially in the high notes; it became a bit painful to my ears. The harp in the Centaur recording 2632 of Susan Miron playing Scarlatti Sonatas also has too much treble. Sounds better in Yale, more balanced. Ditto Rachel Barton Pine on her “Testament” album, playing the Bach violin sonatas and partitas. Going back to Yale.
Thanks, Izzy
Scarlatti Sonatas on harp. This must be a challenge, they are difficult enough on keyboard. I have also heard some played on an eight string baroque guitar (he wrote 555 sonatas). Like the Paganini violin Caprices, the Scarlatti Sonatas get around.
I addition to having had to reboot like others, I am also getting some pops and clicks seemingly arbitrarily. Other had this problem?
Equipment:
Oppo BDP-95 playing redbook CD via coax input to Direcstream. PSAudio Transcendent (silver) balanced interconnects to AudioResearch LS26 preamp, then same interconnects to BHK 250 amp. XLO Reference 3 speaker wire to MartinLogan Spire speakers. MartinLogan Depthi subwoofer connected via line out from preamp direct to subwoofer. All power, except subwoofer, powered by P10 via AC10 cables.
Listened to test tracks during tube warmup (~1 hour) using Yale Final.
First track with Torreys, “Phantom of the Opera,” had more detail around background instruments, they seemed to come out more. The soundstage pulled back a bit, but the Spires were very forward in their projection, so this didn’t seem to be all that bad. This is one of those ‘old’ recordings that used to sound muddled on the PWD where instruments and voices got mixed up. Torreys separated the individual instruments and voices better, and the background instruments came through better.
Going on to 2Cellos “Smooth Criminal” there was more detail around each note. This recording is very close miked to the cello strings, so it’s not like they didn’t come through on Yale, but Torreys dis seem to offer more detail.
On to Bear McCreary ‘Battlestar Galactica, Season 3’ track 4 “Storming New Caprica,” there was much more definition of each instrument. In comparing with Yale I kept the volume the same for both, but Torreys allowed me to up the volume a bit. In doing so, the added energy actually went into the dynamics of each note and improved perceived dynamics, something I was missing a bit from Yale. To go back to Paul’s clear skies and stars analogy, it was like the sonic equivalent of an optical Modulation Transfer Function (MTF) or Optical Transfer Function (OTF–see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_transfer_function ) had gone up and I was getting a better sonic “image.” Increasing the volume added energy into the specific transient and didn’t spread it out to surrounding space, making the dynamic pulse that much more enjoyable. It’s the sonic equivalent of more precise lines in an OTF image, a sharper image of the star.
Right after DirectStream was introduced and I had given up the PWD, this transient was less pronounced than on the PWD. I think it was one of those things that the Wolfson folks incorporated into their chip (while sacrificing some other qualities like soundstage) but they made the dynamics stand out. (Most likely they did this to get the chip sold) The first iterations of Directstream seemed to leave this out while emphasizing other qualities. With Torreys it’s all back as I remember it (or at list I think the way I remember it) WITH all the better soundstage.
Great job, Ted.
Sound improvements aside, I’m having bridge issues.
Yesterday and today, while playing Tidal (BubbbleUPnP>BridgeII), I’ve had a number of stalls between tracks. No apparent reason, it just stops playing sometime before the end of a track, and sits there showing the next track queued up. This rarely happened on Yale.
Also, three times, I’ve had a track start skipping while playing: it plays and then skips betw een chunks of mu sic.
Stopping /restarting BubbleUPnP stopped the skipping, while playing same track.
I just wanted to thank all of the beta testers for their thorough reports. You guys are saving the rest of us a lot of headaches. Kudos!
+1. I’m sitting this one out because I’ve got home renovations going on that keep interfering with my stereo listening but am following the reports. I know how much work this can be and appreciate the effort and really looking forward to the final product.
vhiner1 said I just wanted to thank all of the beta testers for their thorough reports. You guys are saving the rest of us a lot of headaches. Kudos!+1. Yes! Thank God! In my current condition I couldn't go thru all the details you guys have done and gone through. Thank you all immensely.
Torreys Vs Yale…
Hi all… I finally re-loaded Yale…after much hesitation… and here are my thoughts…
I played 3 -4 44/16 tracks… I found Torreys to win in every direction… If I had to use 1 word for Torreys … that word would be ‘Expansive’… The soundstage just expands … and as it does - there is more space created for the instruments… I believe there is a bit more clarity to the mids… and that - again could be something as some folks had mentioned (me included) that could either be a decrease in lower mids or just a decrease in noise… Or - you could just say ‘more clarity’ and call it a day… CD sound on Torreys is phenomenal… Yale was no slouch… but in each case … I found it to be less expansive… instruments were more clustered in the middle of the stage… and vocals seemed a bit ‘thicker’…
Next put 3-4 tracks of 2xDSD in and compared… A bit closer to my ears… but, still think the slightly clearer mids… the more explosive brass sound of a trumpet or saxophone - really shows the difference between the two… With Torreys - a trumpet or sax sounds like it is really in the room and when upper notes are hit - there are absolutely no limits it seems… Yale - again sounded good - but, missed the absolute top end that Torreys brought - giving it an excitement factor…
When I listen to Torreys - it feels like I’m listening to something new every time… when it comes to my music. Yale really had a sonic character similar to my cd player… Yale was better no doubt - but the sonic signature was similar… Torreys feels like a different sonic signature to me… and that is because of the soundstage and depth…
Saying all of this … Yale is a great product… and I do not mean to bring it down in any way… I just think Torreys is way better… Of course, I love soundstage depth, width etc… so Torreys is completely in my wheelhouse…
Great Job to all… Torreys is staying… and I am holding onto my beta… just in case compromises have to be made for problems I do not have… But who knows… I am up for round 2 for sure…
Thanks Paul, Ted, and if there are any ‘minions’… to them as well… Tim.
I own a track that is a vinyl rip . It’s perhaps the best dsd I own . If someone wants it to try on the new firmware or old one I can load on there drop box. So. If interested pm me your drop box and I’ll upload it. I own the album it’s very very old . There is no download available I know of .
I am not looking for thanks but I would like others to post how good it sounds on thus firmware .
All welcome and enjoy .
I would like to add my heartfelt thanks for all the hard work too! You guys are the best!
Hopefully late next week we’ll have another round of tests.
Stay tuned.
mobs said Paul, will there be a full Roon Ready Torreys beta after this one?The version you have is Roon ready. The reason Roon doesn't yet work is there's a Bridge update that needs to be done. Once that happens, you're good to go.
We’re still finalizing things with Roon, but Torreys is Roon Ready.
Just finished a 16 hour comparison marathon between Yale and Torres. Thirty eight different tracks from vocal to funk, but mostly acoustic jazz that I know very well. I used 2x DSD Needle drops, Tidal, and ripped CDs all in Roon(iMac/Silnote USB). System: Directstream with Bridge II using Roon into Audio Research LS17Se through balanced connection feeding Quicksilver V4 monos into Scansonic MB2.5. Analysis Plus Cables throughout except Grimm Audio balanced cables DS to LS, all in a dedicated 16 x 28 listening room.
No issues with install except the progress bar did not move during update. I went back and forth between Yale and Torres over a two day period. I’m not an “advanced tweeker” so I was pleased that it installed with no issues without major issues. No glitches in playback whatsoever.
Maybe my system has reached its transparency threshold and/or my ability to discern minute details has diminished over the years. But after listening to each (Yale/Torres), I could detect no discernible difference. My methodology was to listen to 5 hours of playlist through Yale, then the same list using Torres looking for clues or differences during key passages of each song (I know them all very well). This was followed by my recording of the playlist to Yale in DSD with the same Tascam DA3000 I use to make 2x DSD needle drops. I then compared playback of Tascam to DS playing Torres. I was able to sync the playlist within no more than a second and switched back and forth. In neither case could I detect differences be it spacial cues, tonality, background noise (or lack thereof), or instrumental timbre. (I had no instrumentation to check playback levels, but I could not discern any differences there either.)
Wish I could provide some declaration of superiority of Torres over Yale. But I could not.
C2