Customer complaints vs. PS Audio QA targets

@JeffofArabica, @speed-racer, I refer to your statements in the Papa Lemon Pizza thread you throw at fellow forum members.

This forum ain’t no bible, neither is PS Audio gear sacred. So stop referring to the Bible.

Everybody is welcome here. Whether they do own, used to own, plan to own or don’t have the budget to own but are interested, does not matter. Input from everybody is welcome.

Failures reported in this forum with equipment of this price category, should in the first place not have happened. The repeating and different issues that are reported should be appropriately recognized.

PS Audio is a motivated, friendly, innovative and technically competing company. Apparently we all appreciate PS Audio and their products for that.

Comments from people like @Brodric and others should be taken very seriously. They should not only lead to covering up the symptoms but to addressing the problem.

Quality Assurance seems to be lacking behind the growth of the company, the development of technology and variety of products.

PS Audio should initiate QA development projects and maybe address those in their videos and this forum. Such that trust of those being affected by the issues or those reading about the issues can be regained.



Where do I start?

First, no one referred to the Bible. Groups and individuals from Biblical times were being referenced metaphorically.

Second, yes, everyone is welcome here. What bothers some of us is when certain individuals take every chance they get to bash PSA and Paul. We all know that PSA is not perfect. Heck, they have a lot of problems and I am sure they know it. But, having the same person bash them over and over and over and over for the same issues even though he no longer owns the product is over the top. By all means people should call PSA out on their product issues. But it needs to be done in a reasonable way by people with standing.

Finally, you need to let PSA decide how they want to handle these issues. No one should be telling them how to run their business.


Everyone in this forum is afforded the same opportunity to speak which includes you, me, @speed-racer and yes, even @Brodric. It may just be that you are unable to discern good-natured, constructive feedback from veiled or overt instigation for the sake of inciting others. This has absolutely nothing to do with anyone’s privilege to post freely about their experiences, good or bad, with PSA gear. But that does not preclude anyone here from expressing a counter opinion. And unless one’s head has been buried in the sand for the last couple of years, it is glaringly obvious that Brodric’s expressions pertaining to PSA gear are in abundance - enough to compile a novel that would make War & Peace appear gauntly. He has, is, and will continue to impart his opinion about PSA (and Magico and Esoteric) gear. That, I am certain.

Brodric is a big boy. Despite our tongue & cheek banter and occasional passionate exchanges of opinion, I’m certain his desire to post here in this forum has not diminished. Hell, I kind of think he may even like it based on the frequency of his posts!


What is wrong with suggesting improvement of quality?

If somebody buys equipment and it doesn’t work, yes that can happen with any brand or product. How that has been dealt with not.

On this forum I am not able to find what PS Audio plans are to ensure that such events don’t happen in the future.

Indeed it is PS Audio’s own decision about whether or how to adopt the suggestion.

But likewise it’s every’s consumers own decision to walk away from PS Audio. In case the experience was really bad that person also can say something about it.

When I looked on Ebay in Germany for second hand PS Audio gear last year, it was sad to see recently (last 5 years) released products offered second hand, that were put up for sales because of unresolved technical problems, like displays. How do you think a market responds to that?

If more such advertisements of broken products appear on Ebay I think the brand recognition will suffer, so will sales.

Regarding Brodric, if he bothers you, well: The harder you shout back …?!

Together with JeffofArabia you did refer to Judas and unbelieving Thomas, you can go can back and read that thread.

It was “Doubting Thomas” and that was not @speed-racer, but Brodric who added that to the conversation. I do feel a bit silly for making such a trifle correction.


Indeed it is silly to refer to any sacred document of any religion regardless how it is quoted in forums like these.

You call yourself Arabica (although I think you refer more to the coffee beans than to the region), the reaction from that region in case somebody would refer to their sacred documents in vain would potentially raise reactions of a complete other dimension.

With other words, I just hope that we can communicate in a way that is respectful to each other and keep religion out of it.

The reason I referred to Brodric is that I saw the balance tipping toward the fact, that anything he says has become inflammatory and the reactions to that are often without respect.

I don’t like somebody bashing Paul as I consider him always respectful. But the matter of fact is that PS Audio is his company, he is very much representing PS Audio and that he is partly responsible for it. Not that that would justify somebody to bash Paul, but PS Audio should have dealt with issues like Brodric is reporting. The fact that PS Audio equipment is offered second hand, un-repaired indicates that other people still have similar issues.

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Exactly. When time ran out on waiting for the promised DMP quick fix I put my DMP up for sale on eBay. Next day I got an email from PS HQ asking me to take my DMP for sale listing down. Which I did. And I waited another year, still no fix, so put it on eBay for sale again. PS HQ didn’t ask me to take it down the 2nd time.


Let’s not forget the importance of objectivism. Please consider the fact that there are happy customers who often speak of positive experiences with PSA’s customer service some of which I suspect would disagree with your assessment. Opinions are just that. You will never get all of us to agree on anything. Anyone here who chooses to voice their opinions publicly vs. privately must be ok with others expressing disagreement. Should that sequester the opinions of customers who have had poor (or great) experiences? Of course not. But painting with a broad brush from either side of the fence is unwarranted, whether content or discontent. Companies do fail as a result of poor customer service. If the situation was apocalyptic at PS Audio with regard to all product quality or company-wide customer service, I don’t think they would have stood the test of time, as they deservedly have.

As mentioned prior, Brodric has a voice in this forum and to that I would expect him to voice any issues he has with my posts, or anyone else’s, directly. If I made him cry, that was never my intent and I will apologize to him, directly.

For the sake of accuracy, “Arabica” is not a region of the world. I do disagree with your opinion about the posts you referenced - with regard to religion - by me, speed-racer, or Brodric (yes, as I pointed out prior, he too participated but you seem to leave him out of this part of your argument). There are metaphorical references to the Bible and biblical subjects everywhere that are not disrespectful. Nobody was discussing Religion as a theological topic, nor were they disrespecting Christianity.


It was the context in which the metaphor to biblical situations or figures was used.

As I said not all is wrong with PS Audio and I have just ordered PS Audio equipment.

But if failing disk drives are reported within and outside warranty, clicks an oops issues and 5 year old PS Audio equipment is sold on internet with damaged, non functional displays, those are issues customers should be able to have been avoided by Quality Assurance system of a manufacturer of “high end” equipment.

I don’t expect you to agree, but wrote it in this forum, because in my opinion it does not get the attention is should.

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Just a tip, if you don’t already know, the forum software lets you mute or ignore posts from people as you see fit, it’s a setting under preferences/users. I am interested in some types of contributions more than others, so I fine-tuned a bit for myself. It’s handy.


We take all criticism very seriously, and it helps us in many ways. I’m very proud that we continue to work on and release updates for products that have been discontinued for multiple years.

The DMP was one of the largest programming projects we have ever taken on. We acknowledged that it wasn’t perfect, received feedback, made it better, and to this day customers are still in contact with Barry trying to make it better.

We ran into a screen issue about 5 years ago and quickly changed the screen we were using. They have since been much more robust. As other issues come up (they inevitably will) we hop on it as quickly as possible to find a fix and make it better.

As we grow as a company, we continue to improve in these areas. Our in warranty repairs now have a 48 hour turn around period. I’ve had customers mention other companies can take up to a few months.

The engineering team here at PS has never been so large. We have some very talented members and they are working together to design some very robust software. Some of our new projects include remote diagnostic software to see what failed, why, and how to fix it.

I remember when I was a kid I’d occasionally wake my parents up and say my legs, back, or neck hurt. My dad would tell me they’re just growing pains. This made me excited because I couldn’t wait to be as tall as him. Whether or not growing pains are real while you’re young, they certainly can be for a business. With our extremely talented team, I’m confident we will continue to improve our quality assurance.


Hi James, I appreciate all those efforts. They are important. But not really what I mean with Quality Control.

I fully agree and support you that for an innovative, technology minded successful company as PS Audio, these must be growing pains.

But, the Quality Control I refer to is about avoiding faults, rather than repairing them. That may be done by setting out key performance indexes and mechanisms in the organization. Starting at management (motivation), R&D, purchasing, incoming goods, production, logistics, sales. These are aimed at detecting issues before they lead to failures in the products, which leads to more satisfied customers (happy forum) and far less after sales costs.


I decided to buy a $4000 Auralic streamer, because the Bridge 2 has been making horrible loud bursts of distortion through my speakers. This has been known for several weeks without a solution. It is worrying, and, embarrassing, when I play my $80,000 system for guests, and they hear that nonsense! Ninety five percent of the music I listen to is streamed from my local server, or, Tidal and Qobuz. The other five % is played on my finicky DMP!

Seriously…all I wanted was the pasta recipe…


In the other thread, yes, seriously. You should read that complete thread to get the context. But basically yes.

One of the things we are most proud of is the P3 that we just released. It’s our newest product and is a great example of how successful these new programs are. Of the decent number we have already shipped out, we have only had 5 returns. Two of them were people that instead wanted to up-grade to a P12, two were damaged in shipping, and one was a 30 day return.

We are in the process of developing more rigorous tests, and so far, it has helped a lot with the P3.


Since this is your thread, and this is “on topic” here, I don’t feel bad taking a moment to make a very targeted point about what occurred in the lemon pasta thread. I think your cast of blame is a bit skewed.

When you take a look at what category that lemon pasta thread was created, you will see it was in “Everything Else.” That has traditionally been a category for all things non-audio related. That is where we go to talk about cars, watches, coffee, beverages, and food, to name just a few. Often it is educational and humorous, but generally void of audio talk as there are specific categories that are more appropriate for posting that material, such as complaints.

So, when @stonefree1911 created that post, the title intrigued me and I wanted a break from audio talk so I wandered over to see what this lemon pasta stuff was all about. It was my belief that the thread title, “Papa’s Lemon Pasta,” was actually relative to lemon pasta, a food.

If you take a look at the OP’s original post above , is there any indication at all that he is talking about anything other than the food, lemon pasta? The reference to a “recent video” should be a clue that this lemon pasta recipe likely exists.

Lets take a look at the very next post…

Is there anything in Brodric’s post, that in any way contributes to the topic of lemon pasta, or assists Stonefree with attaining what he is requesting, an actual recipe? No, there is not. Does this Everything Else category or thread topic, “Papa’s Lemon Pasta” have anything to do with Audio? No, it does not. It is reasonable to assume that if one chooses to enter this thread, they would expect to read about anything and everything lemon pasta? I think so.

This VERY FIRST reply was off-topic, had absolutely no value in helping the OP get what he wanted (lemon pasta recipe), and in contrast brought in what I would deem an unwelcomed “cheap shot” which immediately polluted Stonefree’s thread. This is what I consider an Agent Provocateur. I should have a right to complain that he had no business posting such a reply in a thread he did not create and one that was not for audio or audio complaints. If Brodric had posted that ANYWHERE else in an appropriate category with an appropriate thread topic, I would not have replied to his post in the manner in which I did.

Make no mistake Rudolf, this was deliberate and disrespectful to Stonefree and anyone else who happened to enter into this thread for no other reason than lemon pasta. And this is simply not a matter of the thread wandering, because all threads do. This was the first reply! Random off-topic shifts is not a viable excuse in this particular scenario.

Take another look at my annoyed response to his initial reply in that thread. Nowhere did I mention to him that he has no right to complain or voice his opinion. As a matter of fact, go back and look at all of my past posts and you will not find any there either. I interact with Brodric fairly often and he has yet to tell me to shut up or to refrain from engaging him on this forum. My initial reply in that thread was expressing my opinion, which was of discontent, that he inappropriately posted statements that had no business in Stonefree’s thread. It is my right to do so and I felt it justified.

Please don’t misinterpret my replies in that thread or otherwise make assumptions about my intent or views toward anyone’s (including Brodric) ability to express freely. It is clear to me, based on this isolated instance, what Brodric’s intention was in posting in Stonefree’s thread. If you disagree, state your facts and I will be more than happy to participate in a friendly and respectful debate.


@jamesh Question on the P3, is it better to power a pair of M700s with a P3, or all your source gear, ie; (DS Sr- BHK Pre - PWT- Streamer) etc ? I’d rather not load up the P3 too much, nor get a P12 at this point. Is there a consensus? And great job policing the out of context posts, it helps, this forum has some very laid back individuals who know the art of restraint… :wink:

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I usually don’t get involved in these discussions, although I did post early on in the PWT transport topic. When I saw it had jumped up past 200 posts, I looked at the last few posts and lost interest.
Yesterday I skipped the lemon pasta topic, today I took a quick look.
Here is my take, Brodric’s post was kind of funny.
If you guys had just let it alone, there would not have been an off topic bunch of posts.
I don’t think there was an ulterior motive, but if there was one, you all took the bait.
It reminded me of an off topic comment I made within an on topic post. By the time the printed lecture was done, there were three posts, two quite long, of off topic posts.
If any of you were so seriously offended, why not send a PM, instead of adding exactly what you were complaining about, a bunch of off topic posts.

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