DSD Mk II - What Streamer?

@dchang05

I was wondering if you think Innuos Statement is worth the asking price in comparing to Innuos Zenth MK3+PhxNET. Afterall the Statement is more than double the cost of the next in line.

Short answer: YES!

As you know (and you are among some culprits!) I started my “digital” journey very recently. The biggest leap was from MacMini to ZENith MK III, night and day difference literally! Then I added the PhoenixNET to the equation and it brought an improvement clearly audible. Next step was the PhoenixUSB, once more happy of my purchase even if the level of improvements would be considered less impactful. Each Phoenix here in Italy had a cost around 2/2.5k euros, so more affordable than higher prices on US market. I was thinking at the time to be settled in my digital rig, considering the expensive Statement in some way a stupid purchase compared to gear already present in my system. You know I like the analog sound, here Innuos excels IMO. Smoothness, warmth (the right amount), clarity, texture and most of all realism. As for soundstage I frankly didn’t noticed enormous changes, maybe more in depth but subtle. Here the MK II is unbeatable, really another league.
Until my dealer offered me a BIG discount for the deal! Dang!
I had several emails with Innuos staff and directly with the owner, Nuno Vitorino. He convinced me to keep the PhoenixNET because paired with the Statement it could bring an even higher performance. Couldn’t agree more.
In conclusion: I could live with ZENith-Phoenix combo because they are already a perfect mate and they provide a really remarkable SQ.
What the Statement provides is so much noticeable not in sound signature, similar to my previous units, but in its ability to create “engagement”. Think to push all the qualities I already had a step up but it doesn’t really count. Especially the blacker background is impressive, another level never heard before. What really made me think it’s worths the money I spent was the “feeling”, the ability to keep in touch with the music, the pleasure of listening to something completely lost in a state of grace. Like drinking a glass of red wine riserva from Chianti shire: you can feel the taste of a little village from the past, like voices from the streets, like bread just out the ancient oven in the morning, like nuances of woods and honey and berries. Is it worth 300 euros a bottle? I know you can easily understand what I’m saying! Long story short, after a few hours I stopped any critically listening and simply started enjoying the music. Period!
Looking back, yes I would buy it again.

Also, how does the SQ compare to PST?

You perfectly know I always considered CDs playing a better experience compared to streaming (thanks to PST probably). Once I introduced the ZENith in my system I stopped spinning LPs daily. Or better I started playing them rarely. At the time CDs were still my favorite medium, cleaner, more detailed and open, most of all more unveiled. This gap was considerably reduced when I added the Phoenix (NET especially) and comparisons became so difficult to judge. Then arrived in my life together at the same time both the Statement and the MK II (what a wonderful Christmas holiday, do you remember?). Since then, I haven’t noticed anymore differences. I really cannot say if it comes from the DAC or the streamer stuff. What I certainly know is that nowadays I can try to analytically listen CDs and Quobuz albums (even 44/16) without noticing any difference at all. And I’m liking more streaming for a lot of reasons, at a degree that I rarely play CDs.
Curious to know if all I declared above will be confirmed when my room will be finished (it takes a little more time but today I’m going to switch on the system and put back LPs and CDs on the shelves, YEAH! Can’t wait, I’m frying).

Sorry for the long long post. I know you are weighing carefully your options about your next purchase and this required an exhaustive answer on my part. Hope that helps.

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Thanks Luca! This is an incredible description of how each of your streaming upgrade brought! The Innuos gears are pricier in the US for sure. If I pick up a Zenith MK3, then the PhxNET will be mandatory! I understand your wine analogy perfectly too. My 8 years old red tastes great, but the same wine that’s 18 years old tasted better with sophistication. Of course the 18 year old costs a lot more!

In my system the best of streaming is DSD256, and it is close to the PST level. But everything else in streaming is still inferior to PST. So, there is room for improvement indeed.

I have a lot of options to consider, but at least my selection will be down to one with an optimal USB output. Innuos is certainly on my radar.

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Finally I fixed my menu issue, I’m back again!

I’m reading a long list of comments now… sorry for the temporary blackout!

Feel free to asking more questions about Innuos stuff if you need, happy to be useful. Remember also the Sense App, it’s a must have if you want a better SQ using Innuos streamers and I like it so much (less rich than Roon but really easy to use and with good UI).

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Don

If I was looking in the price range you seem to be headed my first choice would be the Aries G2.1. Galvanically isolated outputs, twin power supplies, solid app and tri-band WiFi to eliminate Ethernet noise issues. $6100 with 2TB internal drive. I’ve owned two units that operated on the Lumin platform and while I respect their hardware I didn’t find the software as user friendly for me. As to the U2 versus the equivalent Esoteric you are talking about a unit running on the Lumin platform with older Lumin software with a price premium for the case and name. The Esoteric and Teac apps which are identical are older versions of the Lumin app from the era before Leedh processing. If that software platform is your preference then I would just buy the U2. And no the initial version of the Red is not in this category hardware wise and wasn’t intended to be any more than the Zen Stream was but I expect if sales of the Red justify it a higher level version of the Red will be coming just as was the case with iFi. The current version though is a very fine piece at it’s price as was intended. As usual just my opinion based on owning quite a few different streamers.

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I have not looked into Aries G2.1 yet, and I will investigate since I am not familar with the brand. Thanks!

Lumin U2 with the new software is very attractive, considering Esoteric and teac apps are older versions of the Lumin app. I also think Lumin U2 uses them as the potential bench mark, so it should be close in SQ, if not better, than the older generation of Esoteric and Teac. I may need to wait for a review first.

I am happy with my Euphony Summus 2, and I do not think Red will beat its performance. But I want to find a streamer that could compete with PST since I have been listening to streaming more and more.

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Auralic has been around for years like Lumin and Aurender. Their approaches are slightly different but the quality of their products is first rate. They concentrate on performance first and appearance second. Like PSA Auralic has their own dedicated forum where owners and the designer and CEO all participate so there is a source for crowd help,

And no the Red was not intended to compete head to head with $6000+ streamers like the ones you are talking about or even the Summus. It is what it is and it’s very good at it. It’s sound will be greatly influenced by which base OS you decided to use and your choice of front end software whether it be Roon, JRiver, JPlay or others like MConnect. Today I swapped the base OS from the supplied Red version of Volumio to MoOde and the sound quality went up as it’s a more sophisticated OS.

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I’ll look into Auralic products tomorrow! :+1:

I use Euphony software. With my settings, tracks are preloaded into RAM. So use of external drives with OEM cables is fine.

For that matter the Euphony software itself can be run in RAM. Though I have an NVME SSD in my core and have not tried the RAM trick.


Question: Has anyone A-B tested to compare using a Holo Red for I2S over HDMI to a PSA MK2 vs. simply running a USB cable between a core server device (Nucleus etc) to the PSA MK2? How did you feed the Red? Cable or over network?

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In my experience since owning the Auralic G1.1 for over a month they have no customer support. You can hop on there forum if you have questions but absolutely no contact directly to Auralic as they never get back to you. I switched to the Aurender N150, they respond right away. The Aurender conductor app is a lot better and between the G 1.1 and the N150 the N150 is more musical so if I was you I wouldn’t hesitate on the N200 in that price range for a streamer/server one box solution. Just my opinion! If your winning money off your golf games go for the N20 :blush:

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Thanks for the feedback!

I won like $5 in the last round of golf! I’ll use it to buy lottery tickets to increase my fat chance😆

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Hi Donald, thanks for setting/defining a reference standard for streamer comparison against the sonic level of the PWST. This may not apply to all, but it’s really what I’m looking for myself.

My gut feeling reaches out for the U2, but I’ll also open to other worthy contenders. One of those may be the AL, which at the moment’s still hiding round the corner.
More prominently I feel I need to hold my horses, not to rush into cutting corners by forcing a decision on short notice on a pricy product.
That’s why I’m also interested in other’s experiences and reviews alike. Hope to hear as much as any one of you likes to share!

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There are many great members in this forum that helped me so much, and I learned a lot in the last couple of years. It is a prudent decision not to hurry to buy a server/streamer since the streaming field is vastly more complicated compared to LPs and CDs.

Lumin U2 is the newest and at a more “reasonable” price tag. My next on the list is Aurender N20 at a significantly higher cost. Then there is Innuos. Decisio :thinking:n decision

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Today I did some experiments to see what differences in sound are between my Esoteric streamer and PST with my present setup. Since I did a Master fuse upgrade to the P20 and everything sounds even more open and live than before. Yes, this fuse has a pretty strong effect on my system. The Esoteric has the ChordMusic USB cable going straight into the MK2’s USB input. The PST has the Dragon HDMI going straight in to the MK2’s I2S input so switching between them was a piece of cake. I use the Nina Simone “Little Girl Blue” SACD on the PST and a ripped DSD file from the same SACD on the Esoteric and Wow! The ripped file just made my jaws dropped! So much fullness, presence and dimensionality! The PST sounded fine in itself, but compared to the Esoteric, it was more flat and hard sounding, more digital if you may. The difference was not small. Then I decided maybe the ChordMusic gave the Esoteric an unfair advantage, so I replaced it with another lower end cable, the Audience FrontRow USB cable. With the FrontRow, the Esoteric still sounded much better than the PST, but not nearly to the same degree as the ChordMusic. It was still more natural and live sounding than the PST. Those that thinks a USB cable cannot do much to change the sound of a system has another thought coming, if he should try one of these top end USB cables, especially in a very high resolution system.

I wanted to add I also tried a singled layer Japanese SACD of Bill Evans and a ripped file of the same SACD, also a HDTT DSD256 of the same recording and the ripped file. Just like with the Nina SACD, the file is just hands down more fuller, dimensional, and live sounding. But the DSD256 version just takes it to another level, not even close. It is a different Master though.

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The Esoteric N-03T is a fine streamer for sure. But like you said to bring out the best from it I need two top USB cables; one to connect to MK2 and one to connect to SSD drive. There are not many dealers carry it here like Aurender or Innuos either.

Well, I will wait to see if there would be reviews on Lumin U2. I may do other upgrades like a new rack or a cable first. :grin:

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Don’t forget to check on the Aurender N200. It might perform close to the N20. At the time I bought the Esoteric, I was also looking at the N20 since it is replacing my broken down N10 at the time. The N20 featured new super caps and all that good stuff, and was said to rival the top line W20 at the time. I only went with Esoteric mainly because it matched my other Esoteric gear more. And I liked the natural organic sound Esoteric gear produces.

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Instead of needing an expensive USB cable to an external drive, would it not be better to use a device that buffered the data?

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It’s better to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission. My wife buys whatever whenever she wants. It’s taken me 30 plus years to do unto others as others do unto you. :thinking:

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What about the N150? Anyone have experience with it?

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Aurender and Innuos come with internal SSD may be the best options for my needs, or Lumin U2 if it gets great reviews.

If and when should you decide on getting a new unit, I bought all my Esoteric equipment from Overture and they charge no sales tax with shared delivery, and you can also trade in an item or items. They also carry Aurender and have a 30 days money back guarantee that you will be completely satisfied.

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