My last 10 purchases were triggered directly by this forum. Sometimes it was curiosity, sometimes I “had to” make a purchase to get it over with and have a good night’s sleep. Luckily most upgrades were worthwhile. But to be fair, my posts probably resulted in a few extra sales too (at least one company thanking me for that). 
I have learnt that if I visit the forum less frequently, my system sounds better, and my desire of upgrades diminished too. I should just play more golf 
Donald you sound like a broken record…
OMG, you are so right. My wife is saying the same thing (not on audio of course). I need to get out of here.
Based on last weeks discussion, and other messages, I decided to try something else and purchased a pre-owned pair of Stealth V14 (internal) bi-wired speaker cables.
Nice thing about pre-owned is they don’t take long to burn-in and within a few hours I could tell the detail, clarity and soundstage was much improved with the V14s over the Iconoclast Series 1 and Series 2 (external) bi-wire scenario. I think what that means is cable quality matters over scenario.
@hardlyknow1, congrats on moving up to Stealth speaker cables. I think your experience is consistent with the position that both cable quality and bi-wire configuration matter, although one factor may be more important than the other in any specific situation.
The consensus that I took away from last week’s bi-wire discussion was that the best sound quality would be most likely to result when two separate high-quality cables (each with a positive and a negative connector, of course) were run to the four input terminals on each bi-wirable speaker. There was some disagreement about whether internal bi-wiring of a cable was a good idea; several folks discouraged this configuration, but some users reported success with this approach. Since internal bi-wiring splits the conductors into two additional parts (though sometimes being set up to send more than half the wire in the cable to the “woofer” conductors), the success of internal bi-wiring appears to vary significantly depending on the gauge and geometry of the conductors being used. Your situation shows that internal bi-wiring can work out well when using a high-quality cable. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if running two separate Stealth cables to each speaker would sound even better. In fact, I think that is what Al is doing.
In my own situation, I was able to improve sound quality by simply replacing the stock jumper cable with a high-quality jumper that was a better match for my main speaker cables. I’m pretty sure that using two matching speaker cables (for each speaker) of the same quality as my current cables would sound even better.
I’m glad you raised the issue of internal wiring. In my case the mid and treble cables are around 3m to the speaker terminals, but, within the speaker there are probably another 2m of cabling that I can’t change because the cables are stuck within a large transmission line cabinet ( and often stuck inside foam). So, whatever we all do to get to the speaker terminals we’re stuck with whatever the manufacturer uses internally (and I’ve looked inside enough speakers to know it’s not always as good as one might hope). Regarding my bass cables they’re about 10m lengths of 6mm copper because the bass amps are in a different room (due to having permanently running fans - further they signal cable going to the amps have to be 10m long balanced XLRs).
Yes, your “best is bi-wire” conclusion has been born out with my experience and others I trust, including the recommendation of the cable manufacturer’s.
Better jumpers, internal bi-wire sets, an improved
single pair, upgrading internal speaker wire (if you can) will all help. But, they are not the ideal.
I sense you knew this prior to your inquiry and was seeking validation or a new truth. The tricky part is then knowing the ideal and whether the additional cost required to have it is justified. Few can have it all.
My cable setup falls short of the ideal bi-wire system with two identical pairs. It has a very good pair for the top and a lesser pair for the bottom, no jumpers. Short of the ideal but it works for me and my cost equation.
If someone can quantify aural improvements, that’s when I will be all ears.
@straightwire, Yes, I was assuming that true bi-wiring using two identical pairs of cables would be the ideal, but I was hoping to get a few hints about just how close you can get using jumpers or internal bi-wiring. And as Dan discusses above, internal speaker wiring can have a significant effect, too, but isn’t all that easy to upgrade.
I guess we’re left with the infamous “everything matters” situation and the need to try out potential solutions for ourselves while balancing the ideal sound against the financial costs.
The core of all things audio!
This reaches into the question of how far does one want go down the rabbit hole looking for perfection versus being content with the system you already have. There are no easy answers.
I have speaker cables with internal biwiring, a tube preamp that uses only rca interconnect and an active crossover in the system, and I am more content with my system than ever before.
And there’s more than one rabbit hole!
Fortunately the cable dilemma is very easy to test what works best for you and your budget … and while Vandersteen is big believer in bi-wire, many designers are not…read a great interview some years ago where a notable speaker designer, when asked why he made his speakers bi-wire, stated it was easier than explaining endlessly why he didn’t… as for bass, we all have different needs/wants/.expectations…I much prefer my FR20’s with a pair of subs…
Just a thought here. Could the Sprout 100 drive the FR10 speakers? I already own one and if it could be done that would make buying the speakers (when I can) more affordable until I can move up the chain on an amp.
Don’t know for sure about the FR10’s but I’m enjoying my FR5’s with a Sprout and a pair of REL subs right now. Sounds awesome. Decided to try it today because I need to send in my SGCD in for repairs. This will work great till I get it back.
SDL,
Wanted to let you know that a few days ago I took delivery of my Atma-Sphere Class D mono blocs, partially based on your comments. The AS amps have replaced my (excellent) M1200s. I’m also using Aspen FR10 speakers, a BHK preamp, Snake River power cords and interconnects, and 2 REL T/9X subs. The AS amps are said to need a month to six weeks to break in, but to my ears they sounded really good right out of the box. I have them running low volume pink noise 24/7. I second your comments about bass, sound staging, detail, and the rest. One more thing: in my configuration, the AS amps easily have enough power for the FR10s.
softlight64,
Congrats on the new Atma-Sphere Class D monoblocks! I still don’t know how they can be so transparent without producing listening fatigue. I’m sure that the great planar drivers in the FR10 speakers contribute to that sonic magic as well.
What Snake River power cables are you using? I’ve read a lot of good things about the Takshaka power cords. Have you ever tried them?
For the FR10 speakers do you have to use the Subs with the AS amps? 100 watts doesn’t sound like a lot for these speakers but I don’t know very much when it comes to this stuff.
SDL,
I have Snake River Signature Series power cords in my monoblocs. The Takshakas look interesting and are no doubt very fine — but at $2800.00 they’re out of my budget.
Hi Cygnus,
The FR10s are 4 ohm speakers, and the Atma-Sphere Class D monoblocs are are rated at 200 watts at 4 ohms. The 100 watt power rating for the AS monoblocs are for 8 ohm speakers.
I don’t think you’d have to use subs with them AS amps and FR10s. But for a variety of reasons I always use my subs regardless. BTW with monoblocs you have to use 1 sub for each monobloc, you can’t get by with just one sub. AS amps have a 6 week approval period, at least when purchased from the factory.
I use M700 monoblocs with just one REL sub and it works very well. Not sure if AS amps can hook up to the RELs in the same way, but FWIW, one sub is possible with at least some monoblocs.