Are you saying that the hypothetical perfect DSD playback rate is a bit higher than 2x?
That an ideal clock and an ideal digital system would run at 2x, but you were constraint by price/availability of clocks and by an algorithm and/or digital components that required a clock four times as fast as the output rate?
That the hardware we currently possess, with its 8x clock and related components, has its own compromised sweet spot closer to 4x than 2x and that you’ve been able to get us closer to that hardware-defined point with a new software algorithm that reduces the required ticks-per-bit from 4 to 2?
dvorak said
Are you saying that the hypothetical perfect DSD playback rate is a bit higher than 2x?
If you draw a smooth line (cubic spline :) ) thru the various factors of two sample rates, the peak is somewhere around 3 or 3.25MHz (I don't have the chart in front of me.) Also, it's not the just the playback rate we are talking about but the ideal sample rate of the whole system (if implemented with one bit.)
That an ideal clock and an ideal digital system would run at 2x, but you were constraint by price/availability of clocks and by an algorithm and/or digital components that required a clock four times as fast as the output rate?
Yep, originally I wanted a 4x clock so I could apply an algo to lower the THD, as it turned out that didn't make things sound better and it caused a 6dB lower output signal which wasn't ideal. In any case the best clock I could find was an 8x clock anyway: it was the first production clock with that good low frequency phase noise that was a multiple of 44.1k. There still aren't better ones available at 2x or 4x, tho in principle they would have lower phase noise there's no demand for them since most DAC and digital processing chips that want a multiple of 44.1k want 8x the DSD rate.
That the hardware we currently possess, with its 8x clock and related components, has its own compromised sweet spot closer to 4x than 2x and that you’ve been able to get us closer to that hardware-defined point with a new software algorithm that reduces the required ticks-per-bit from 4 to 2?
No, not quite: the analog hardware (the low pass filter) is still designed for 2x. Since I already have an 8x clock I can output single bits at 8x, 4x, 2x, 1x (or lower obviously.) The initial 2x design changed the values 4 time per sample needing an 8x clock. Most of the releases changed the DSD output bits once per sample at 2x and held them steady for 4 clocks. Huron changes the output bits once per sample at 4x and holds them steady for 2 clocks. None of these change the amount of phase noise from the clock or reclocker since the clock is the same so I can choose among the rates for the best sound.
Putting it another way the DS was designed for the lowest low end phase noise available in real hardware at the time (an 8x clock.) Whether the FPGA is changing the outputs every clock, every other clock, every 4th clock, etc. (or even every 3rd clock or 7th clock) is immaterial as far as clock related jitter is concerned.
I guess that I am a nerd. No, no guessing, I AM a nerd. Many of Ted’s posts are educational, interesting and/or entertaining to read, and these last few are up there with the best. Thank you Ted for sharing all of this with us. You are an incredibly valuable member of our community.
I’ve updated to DirectStream Huron and to MQA without any problems.
My first impression. Great sound image. The instruments are very clear. The bass will hold up boys and girls. I’ve been to you that a DS was a nice but thin cup of coffee. It has been raining one of the world’s best coffee with sucking and cream.
On Wednesday I will demo PS Audio equipment to some Danish speaker companies as well as some highly trained HIFI listeners. I am looking forward to it after opening up to Huron. There have been some more smack on my transins. Thanks to TED - Paul and the whole fantasy PS audio team … More love from Denmark
Many loving greetings to Arni Nudel - Big hug
Thanks to PS Audio – If God is big, PS audio is just bigger.
Huron sounds good…
I am being playing Huron from the day it was released and thought of listening to it for a period of time before writing anything here and didn’t want to make any early impression, good or bad. When I installed Huron, the sound became harsh & harder – there were lot of resolution but the instruments were very much disconnected. I knew something weren’t right. So I went back to the cycle of loading Huron->Torreys->Huron and power cycling the DS in between the steps that many had done. After doing this, the sound from Huron was totally transformational – the DS has never sang like this before, a completely different DAC. I won’t go into describing all the praises that has already being said but suffices to say that I feel proud of making the decision to purchase the DS 3 yrs back when it came out - one of the best audio purchase I ever made.
A big hats off and thanks to Ted, Paul, and the entire PSA team
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y the same for me. Thanks for the post Dev.
I had the PSJr and PWT for just a few weeks and upgraded to the DSD/DMP. Previous listening was Torreys and was magical. Set up the new kit and was underwhelmed. Harsh and bright with much detail but no cohesiveness. Installed Torreys, immediate improvement. Re-installed Huron and better yet! Don’t know why it worked but it did!
I had a listening session today at a friend who also has a DS, which we updated to Huron. He always has varying killer setups and all the time very expensive and selected equipment to try. This time we compared the DS to an 11k digital set of a very classic US brand and the other one just sounded lackluster in comparison.
We agreed that the DS seems to be the most pure, transparent and revealing source which therefore might not fit for any setup but when a setup is without flaws and on one high level there seems to be nothing better and the steps upwards of the DS since the firmwares since Yale make it a really unrivaled product. The step up by Huron was huge in this setup.
Kudos and Thanks to Ted and PS Audio for the remarkable improvements in the Huron, which they have delivered at no charge.
Huron is a remarkable improvement in my system - it’s such an upgrade that it’s got me looking into upgrading my DS => amps XLRs.
We’re thrilled you enjoy the upgrade in both the spirit we offer it and the work that Ted and team have invested in getting it there. Thanks for posting and hope you do work on upgrading over time. It’s a worthwhile journey.
I have been lurking here…and didn’t intend to contribute.
Faced with a recent change in speakers, i have held off on Huron for several weeks, until this am. It is my first DS (Jr) upgrade.
In short, the differences were not subtle. For me, images were sharper, instruments better defined and sound stage closer. In my relatively small room, i noted no difference in volume used to listen or issues related to bass/phase. Torrey is more mellow…?
Committing to improve products rather than replace them coupled with stellar communications with clients and stakeholders (Paul’s posts, Copper, Forums…) PS is building a reputation of developing a unusual degree of product / company loyalty and dare i say it, a family or community.
Michael - Denmark said
I’ve updated to DirectStream Huron and to MQA without any problems....
What was your starting point prior to Huron upgrade?
I’m curious why some owners are having various degrees of difficulty with DS software upgrades whilst for others it works as intended.
I have seen your post today, sorry.
I have two DS incl bridge II where I have updated the first day that the update was released. It was updated from DS Torreys Final (Bridge II 0.0.0) SD card 32gb class 10. I have used it here to test errors and update back and forth.
The update you’re looking for here: It was updated from DS Torreys Final (Bridge II 0.0.0) SD card 32gb class 10. The same day where the update to Bridge II to MQA was released. Here I have followed Poul’s instructions to the point. Early Christmas – PS Audio
I can not give you a professional answer as to why some have had trouble with the different updates, otherwise that’s what we’re wrong 40 as 40 cm from the screen. What it also calls for the user. I’ve certainly also wondered and the closest I can get it if I have to defend us uses is that you often see the same things happen when the user is to update his graphics card. You just have to forget to turn off their virus scanner, so you can get some fun issues, etc. It may also be the quality of the SD card users use or the formatting of the card itself that fails.
I have updated again and again and I have not had any update issues.
I have an event under review audio after the update. Big Daddy Wilson - Live in Luxembourg. (Stranger). I’m in the summerhouse for September so I’m not so often home to test the sound from the update. (My (2) BHK Signature 250 stereo power amplifier can not pull my Infinity RS1B over RCA / XLR can not be used.) So the problem does not have to be the actual sound from the update. All of my PS audio equipment I have just packed up since I’ve had a very bad start with many problems. I am currently setting up a new reference speaker, and I will return with further comment on the actual sounds from the update. But the update was a significant improvement on my big Infinity, no devil.
I’m sorry I’m so bad to write English and I use google translate.
Many of Ted’s posts are educational, interesting and/or entertaining to read, and these last few are up there with the best. Thank you Ted for sharing all of this with us. You are an incredibly valuable member of our community.
