Invisible Bridges


#1

I’ve just moved house – packed all my stereo equipment up in original boxes and carefully transported it in my car to the new house – when I set it up, my PWD Mk2 wouldn’t recognise the bridge on the main menu. Tried rescue via USB, reloading firmware to PWD, pressing reset button on startup many times each – still no bridge on the PWD menu. Yellow and green lights where network cable connects to bridge flash. Got a second bridge from local dealer – exactly the same.



This is really annoying, as I have managed to run my PWD/Bridge/Elyric setup for over 2 years at my old house without having to touch it. It was a complete pain to get working, but once it was working all I had to do was not tinker with it.



Has anyone seen this before? Does my PWD need to go back to PS Audio?


#2

I can say I had issues two. List how the network system is setup. Meaning from internet to dac bridge also is the bridge setup on dhcp or static. And I am sure someone can help you.



Al


#3

@justin

Frustrating. Music in the new house means “you are finally moved in”.

Let’s see if we can get you running.

FIRST, many assume that if you cannot see the Bridge on the PWD screen that you need to do some kind of mysterious “rescue” process to get it back.

NOT TRUE!

If the Bridge is not seeing an ethernet connection then it simply will not display.

!/ try the traditional COLD reboot of EVERYTHING [including ISP Modem, router, PC, switches etc] as this often resets the connection and saves a lot of time.

2/ if no luck, then there is a “net-fix” program to be run that resets the Bridge ethernet connection. [ NOT to be confused with Bridge Rescue].

Let us know if the #1 cold boot did the job.

G


#4

There is no internet connection at the house yet - I’m still moving in there. The Bridge is connected to a router which is also connected to a PC running Windows XP and eLyric. The cables, router and PC were all used in the setup at my old place.



I think the original Bridge was DHCP - I set it up over 2 years ago at the old house and never altered anything once I got it working. However, both of the Bridges are invisible to the network as well as to the PWD, so I guess they are neither dhcp or static as they are clearly not connecting to the network.


#5

Thanks Gordon - didn’t see your answer before my last post. I’m still in the old house, which is about an hours drive from the new one - will pop up there during the week.



I didn’t realise that the connection to the network affected the appearance of the Bridge on the PWD menu. Given I have tried two Bridges out, that makes me think the network must be at fault. I rebooted the computer a few times, and tried JRiver software, but I didn’t reboot the router. I might even try buying a new router and cables to see if that helps.



It has been so frustrating - I deliberately moved all my hifi gear first, so I would have music while I was setting up the new house and getting myself moved in. Now, when I go up there to assemble wardrobes, paint and unpack things, I just spend the whole day fiddling with and swearing at the hifi.


#6

To top it all off, my P10 blew a fuse today - which is odd, because nothing was playing at the time, so I lost all power to everything. I’m having trouble finding a replacement fuse now…


#7

Gordon is really good at tech support and all around understanding and knowledge. You. Are in good hands

Al


#8

@justin

hi

Bridge does not need an internet connection but needs the NETWORK connection to function.

If you reboot PWD with no network connection [ethernet cable unplugged] you will get the Bridge on the front panel but marked in red as “not connected”.

Sometimes after the power is also disconnected the Bridge will not even show and PWD will boot to [in my case] the I2s front panel.

In this case the quickest fix is the “reboot everything” [PWD being the last to reboot] and if no luck then the Net-Fix] should do it.

This is particularly delicate given that Elyric often has a hard time seeing the Network and Bridge even though you can ping the Bridge from your PC.

I suspect this is a DHCO/upnp flaw in Elyric. This is why after unplugging everything, I suggest to turn on router, PC, open Elyric, Then replug and open PWD.

If this doesn’t work then let me know when you are going to the new house and we can plan a telcall that should fix things quickly. I can email you the Net-Fix.

G


#9

You’re a star Gordon. I’m in Australia, so time differences can make calling impractical - but I will try as you say.



I’ve had my PS Audio gear for a few years now - it took me about 6 months to get it working properly first time, but once it was set up it was remarkably reliable. I guess I have to go through the whole process again.



I was kind of hoping that after a couple of years off this forum that I would return and eLyric 3.0 would be available with no bugs and seamless integration with any PC, Mac or NAS - but I guess that was wishful thinking.



The bottom line is that the sound from the PWD/Bridge is so good, it’s a very small price to pay having to work with the sometimes fragile software.



I had a minor irritation with the website on my return from the wilderness and got an email directly from Paul early on Sunday morning to sort it out. I can’t imagine there is another company of PS Audio’s size on Earth where the founder and Managing Director does direct customer support for a trivial matter personally early on a Sunday morning.



It’s impossible not to be impressed with PS Audio as a company, as well as with their products which have clearly been designed and built by people who love their music as much as their customers do.


#10
justin said: I'm in Australia, so time differences can make calling impractical


Not a problem if you have Skype or Viber.
Viber is great because it works easily on 3g so not necessary to have wifi.
Anyway, let me know.
I will send you the Ne-Fix file to your pvt email just in case.
You just load it on a USB stick, stick it in and reboot the PWD.
G


#11

are you at internode or gmail?


#12

Alright - more bad news… I took the DAC back to the dealer and it was fine on his network, luckily my P10 had crapped out, so I needed to go there anyway.



So, I’ve spent another $700 buying a new computer, router, jriver server and set of cables and after 6 hours of pulling my hair out, finally got the PWD/Bridge visible on the network.



However, after another 6 hours of pissing about I can’t get it working properly. Elyric refuses to load any libraries on the new computer and I can’t see a single album and I cannot get the Jriver server to work without the Bridge inserting those annoying F^$#&ing gaps between tracks!!!



I have spent over 12 hours today just trying to get it to play a single album. I tried connecting up my old computer running Windows XP, after waiting 4 hours for the library to scan it will only play about 20 seconds of music before crashing. Yes, I’ve restarted it hundreds of times, reloaded the software, prayed to Mecca, sacrificed a goat, etc. etc.



The Bridge was clearly never fit for purpose if after 2 years of trying it is still unable to play albums without inserting gaps into the music every 5 minutes. Now that eLyric will not work on any of my computers, I am left another $700 out of pocket and staring at a $5,000 paperweight.



I find it completely intolerable to have gaps inserted into my music by the PWD - unless this is able to be fixed (and PS Audio has had years to do this), then I need a refund so I can put a deposit on a far more expensive Linn DS machine, with poorer sound quality - but at least which is capable of playing music the way it is supposed to be played.



I am really sad that I have to get so mad with PS Audio, the ethos of the company and the quality of the music between the gaps is fantastic, second to none. But the sad fact is that the Bridge is an irretrievably flawed design and should never have been sold. It simply doesn’t work properly.


#13

Justin, this sounds awful and my apologies. This is supposed to be fun and good sounding fun at that. I don’t think I understand what you mean when you write “inserting gaps”. Nothing we make does or should insert anything. If you mean it won’t play gapless on albums that are supposed to be gapless, then I understand. And yes, the Bridge will never do gapless, unfortunately. We have been working on a new version for some time now, one that will do gapless.



But it sounds like perhaps there’s something else amiss? We sure don’t want to be the cause of pain. Let me know what we can do, even if it is to help through your dealer to moving on.


#14

Justin

I am presently out of the country but back on 29th.

As Paul stayed the PWD does or should not add gaps between tracks.

If the SQ is worth another week, I can do a Skype or Viber call with you when I return.

A complete list of your equipment and how it is all connected will give me a head start. Send it by email or pm to me. It is rare that I get stumped. Mostly luck though. Also firmware versions pwd n bridge n if you have a modem router from your ISP.

I would do a reset on the modem router in the meantime as the common Aussie ones have often been troublesome.

When you tried the DAC at the dealer did it also have the gaps?


#15

Justin,



I see that Gordon has kindly offered to help you by Skype, and he is the best. While you’re waiting for him to get home, you might try setting static IP addresses for your components, most importantly the Bridge. Many of us have found that this makes for much better reliability with the network and the Bridge. Instructions are at the beginning of this thread: http://www.psaudio.com/forum/#/discussion/4124/how-to-assign-a-static-ip-address-to-your-pwdbridge/p1.



Good luck! I know from experience how frustrating this kind of thing can be.


#16

Justin, assuming your new machine also runs Windows, you might try foobar2000 (foobar2000.org). The program is free (MonkeyMote4foobar is a good iPad/iPhone controller app that costs $2-$3 and is well worth it). After installing foobar, go to the components page and download and install the two that start with “UPnP” (and restart foobar). The UPnP MediaRenderer Output module permits gapless play. In the preference panel, select “output” and then your PWD and 24 bits. It’s not perfect but it works very well for me (up to and including 192/24 files). That won’t solve your network problems but should address the gapless issue.


#17

Stevem2 beat me to it… I am using exactly the solution that he is recommending to provide gapless bliss and more consistent music delivery than any other network music system that I have tried. Give it a go and hopefully it will provide adequate performance until the Bridge Mk.II arrives. I would guess that Bridge Mk.II is likely to arrive some time next year.



J.P.


#18

One comment on the new Bridge and gapless;

I cannot see how Linn extensions can be used with Wavestream.

I reckon it is one or the other, meaning that we may have a choice?


#19

Yes, one or the other.



WaveStream is used to redirect the audio output of a media player program running on the computer over a network connection to the Bridge.



Linn extensions are extensions implemented in the player on the new Bridge that will request next track from the media server before the current track has finished playing. Having the data for the first blocks of the next track loaded up in the media players buffer on the bridge will alloe it to start playing without interruption immediately after the current track finishes.



This is all a matter of where the player is: in the Bridge or in the computer feeding the Bridge. WaveStream is only involved in the latter case.



J.P.


#20
Yes, one or the other.

WaveStream is used to redirect the audio output of a media player program running on the computer over a network connection to the Bridge.

Linn extensions are extensions implemented in the player on the new Bridge that will request next track from the media server before the current track has finished playing. Having the data for the first blocks of the next track loaded up in the media players buffer on the bridge will alloe it to start playing without interruption immediately after the current track finishes.

This is all a matter of where the player is: in the Bridge or in the computer feeding the Bridge. WaveStream is only involved in the latter case.

J.P.

This is to my understanding also.
The WS was said to (probably) have even better SQ, but my bet on which solution that trumps the other will be Bridge II.
Also, the new Bridge must improve on uPnP discovery.