Our perception of loudness is based on many things other than volume. It certainly is possible one FW appears louder than another.
Interesting observation.
s-p, I had the same thing happen during the exhaustive PWD FW changes. I kept measuring but I was convinced the FW across a couple of versions was built so that the volume was different. It was confirmed by Paul this was not the case. Funny how the brain works.
I might try to input a sine wave for different frequencies (or pink noise) and measure with a soundmeter in sweet spot.
However I expect it to differ on the sub .1 scale only so it might not be easy to detect with confidence.
Elk said Our perception of loudness is based on many things other than volume. It certainly is possible one FW appears louder than another.Interesting observation.
Yes, it is just an observation. I’d be interested to know if others notice this effect, and if it has any basis in how the firmware changed the DAC functionality.
yup.
I also noticed, and commented on, this.
At one point [I forget which version] there was a 5 click difference with the DS volume so I suspect that it was more than just perception.
Stage and more a forward presentation can also have this effect, just as how a more relaxed and laid back presentation can prompt us to turn the volume up.
Edit:
I have a a few tracks in both PCM/WAV and DSD128.
The PCM seems noticeably louder and with a bit more dynamics.
But, when I really listen “into” the sound the DSD is so much more articulate and really just as dynamic but seems to be at a lesser perceived volume.
They are both from Blue Coast and reportedly from the same source and mix.
gordon said yup.I also noticed, and commented on, this.
At one point [I forget which version] there was a 5 click difference with the DS volume so I suspect that it was more than just perception.
Stage and more a forward presentation can also have this effect, just as how a more relaxed and laid back presentation can prompt us to turn the volume up.
Edit:
I have a a few tracks in both PCM/WAV and DSD128.
The PCM seems noticeably louder and with a bit more dynamics.
But, when I really listen “into” the sound the DSD is so much more articulate and really just as dynamic but seems to be at a lesser perceived volume.
They are both from Blue Coast and reportedly from the same source and mix.
There is often a difference between DSD and PCM, even from the same masters. DSD has about a 3 or 4 dB soft clipping zone above 0dBFS, as we know PCM has 0 headroom above 0dBFS. When DSD is converted to PCM to avoid clipping it may need to be lowered by 3 or 4 dB and since 0dBFS for DSD is 6dB below all 0s or all 1s sometimes the PCM is exactly 6dB below DSD.
Tho as it turns out most of my DSD/PCM pairs are exactly the same volume on the scope.
If you feel that DSD and PCM are consistently off by some amount be sure to run the bitperfect test. You may well have some volume control in your system not at 100% and more and more of them are smart enough to not apply volume to DSD…
stereophilus said I've been listening to both 5407 and 6115 all day, in extended sessions with each. I have some thoughts about SQ for both, but as my DS is still burning in I'm reluctant to overcall things currently. 6115 is growing on me. There is one thing that stands out though: 6115 sounds louder than 5407. Is that possible? (Yes, I've checked the volume on the DAC and pre).I have indeed heard slight differences in perceived loudness between two FPGA compiles of the exact same source.
You might even find that with two people listening at the same times one will think A is louder while the other thinks B is louder. It depends where you get your loudness clues from.
Any signal correlated noise has the chance to cause differences in loudness - I’d hope that this isn’t involved between software releases 
If there’s much dispersion in the phase response of two signals they may end up with slightly different heights of peaks even tho a their FFTs could look identical. In the extreme a lot of FM stations use an all pass filter that purposefully screws with phase to lower the peaks so they can push louder material into their frequency allotment. Perhaps jitter can also cause enough phase dispersion to be audible - I don’t know off of the top of my head.
Clearly compression will do the same thing, but I’m very sure that isn’t involved with various DS software releases.
Thanks Ted
i ran it when posted but will try the BP test again.
6115 is sure different, I’ll say. I just loaded it and right away I get the impression that there is more depth to the soundstage. Other details will take some listening to sort out. That will have to wait, I’m off to Indy for the Dave Matthews Band!
Well clearly there are now several that prefer the older FW. Is there any way Ted take the old FW and just add 6115’s enhancements to the old FW without the things that affected the voicing so the we an updated version of the original DS sound?
Gentlemen and Ladies,
I’m a longtime lurker and a first time poster and I need help! My DS refuses to update to 6115. First a little background. I have a P5, P10, PWT, PWD-II, and now a DS. I have updated all but the DS on numerous occasions without any problems, but the DS absolutely refuses to update. I’ve downloaded and unpacked the update files several times on two different computers and tried four different reformatted (FAT16 and FAT32) 2GB SD cards. I’ve powercycled the DS with the back panel switch and also by unplugging the power cord. When repowered the DS doesn’t even hiccup before initializing and booting into 5407. The SD card reader in the DS appears to be working correctly as a COVERART.BMP file is being written to the card by the DS. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated as I would like to update to 6115 asap.
emailists said Well clearly there are now several that prefer the older FW. Is there any way Ted take the old FW and just add 6115's enhancements to the old FW without the things that affected the voicing so the we an updated version of the original DS sound?6115 is exactly only 6115's enhancements added to 5407. I'm not trying to be funny. Voicing in the FPGA involves no code changes.
6115 is better by any technical measurement and precisely the things that make it better for most may be less fulfilling to some others. Still most people that initially liked 5407 better found that after a day or so 6115 seemed to “get better”. It is the case that you need to wait a little (maybe minutes, not hours or days) after powering up for things to settle in.
Ted Smith saidemailists said Well clearly there are now several that prefer the older FW. Is there any way Ted take the old FW and just add 6115's enhancements to the old FW without the things that affected the voicing so the we an updated version of the original DS sound?6115 is exactly only 6115’s enhancements added to 5407. I’m not trying to be funny. Voicing in the FPGA involves no code changes.
6115 is better by any technical measurement and precisely the things that make it better for most may be less fulfilling to some others. Still most people that initially liked 5407 better found that after a day or so 6115 seemed to “get better”. It is the case that you need to wait a little (maybe minutes, not hours or days) after powering up for things to settle in.
Yes after a day of listening I’m changing my mind back to 6155, yes still is a bit hot for my tastes but it’s other qualities probably offset.
Denis said Gentlemen and Ladies,I’m a longtime lurker and a first time poster and I need help! My DS refuses to update to 6115. First a little background. I have a P5, P10, PWT, PWD-II, and now a DS. I have updated all but the DS on numerous occasions without any problems, but the DS absolutely refuses to update. I’ve downloaded and unpacked the update files several times on two different computers and tried four different reformatted (FAT16 and FAT32) 2GB SD cards. I’ve powercycled the DS with the back panel switch and also by unplugging the power cord. When repowered the DS doesn’t even hiccup before initializing and booting into 5407. The SD card reader in the DS appears to be working correctly as a COVERART.BMP file is being written to the card by the DS. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated as I would like to update to 6115 asap.
Denis, look at post #35 by Elk about needing root directory, I had mine in a folder.
Hi Roger,
I wish it was that simple. For every try to update I’ve had the files in the root of the SD card. Probably unrelated, but the problem I’m having may go deeper as occasionally the front display freezes and the only way to regain control of the DS is by powercycling the unit. I was hoping the the new firmware would fix this. Thank you for the tip, but unfortunately my problem persists.
Denis said Hi Roger,I wish it was that simple. For every try to update I’ve had the files in the root of the SD card. Probably unrelated, but the problem I’m having may go deeper as occasionally the front display freezes and the only way to regain control of the DS is by powercycling the unit. I was hoping the the new firmware would fix this. Thank you for the tip, but unfortunately my problem persists.
With these two issues I suggest you contact PSA, there is a contact on their site, display should not freeze I would think.
I downloaded 2 folders each containing 6 files that are unix executable files. I don’t see any directions. The folders are labeled 11-061- blah blah. I downloaded them from the link at PRODUCT UPGRADES tab and then direcstream 6115 upgrades download.
I downloaded them on a macbook air. They don’t look zipped to me?
I copied them over to the SD card and then ejected it and put in upside down into the DS Dac and nothing happened.
Obviously I am doing something wrong and need help.
Mr_Bill said I downloaded 2 folders each containing 6 files that are unix executable files. I don't see any directions. The folders are labeled 11-061- blah blah. I downloaded them from the link at PRODUCT UPGRADES tab and then direcstream 6115 upgrades download.I downloaded them on a macbook air. They don’t look zipped to me?
I copied them over to the SD card and then ejected it and put in upside down into the DS Dac and nothing happened.
Obviously I am doing something wrong and need help.
There should be one zip file (which may look like a folder on some systems.) It’s name should be 11-061-01-1-FMC-6.zip (or perhaps displayed with no .zip)
It should contain DSDD0007.hex, fpga6115.hex, USBL0006.hex, DSDG0002.hex and LOADER.CFG (There’s also a file named LOADEF.CFG.9999 which isn’t used for this process.)
These six files should be copied to the top level of a SD card.
The card should be inserted with the contacts up in the back of the DS.
Turn the power off.
Turn the power on.
The blue logo light in the upper left should blink for a while then the normal boot sequence will be seen on the display.
Pressing the gear icon in the upper left of the screen should show the version numbers and in particular Firmware: 1.1.5 and FPGA: 0.61
I installed the DS kit successfully into my PWD chassis several weeks ago and have enjoyed it immensely. However, having just installed the new firmware, all is not well. Firmware install seemed to go well. Logo flashed for a while, then DS initialized. I powered the DS off, removed SD card, and powered DS up. Volume nearly nil in right channel. The balance setting indicated 100/0. As I pushed and held the right balance button on remote, the right channel came up until it reached 56, and then while still holding right balance button, right stayed at 56 but left channel started reducing. The highest equal setting I can achieve is 56/56. Output is set to HIGH, but at this balance setting, volume is too low even with integrated amp cranked way up, base tubby and excessive, mid to treble recessed. Sounds yucky. The setup menu indicates Firmware 1.1.5, FPGA 0.61.
I’ll have to wait 'til Monday to call Customer Service. In the meantime, any advice?
Many thanks!
Thank you kindly Ted,
Worked exactly as you guided me through the process.