New P25 power plant

Power Components
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A thread for those looking for the one stop power solution based up on PS Audio regenerator products…

A wish list is to no longer need to address many different power issues separately so that a power plant can handle it all…

Call it feedback to PS Audio R&D

  1. Separate isolation between all outputs
  • Equipment creates noice that will affect the rest of the equipment
  1. incoming mains ground noice cleaning.
  • lots of noice are entering the equipment via the mains ground cable. That should be cleaned in some way

  1. a star earth grounding solution for signal grounding equipment (both digital and analogue)

  2. a star earth grounding solution for chassi grounding equipment (both digital and analogue)

  3. a DC-blocker prior to the power plant transformer

  4. a sine wave rebalancer on the incoming power (preferable after the first dc blocker), to help the power plant have an easier ride

  5. a traditional filter solution on the incoming power to prevent RFI/EMF and others to affect the power

  6. an even more over sized power plant with larger power transient capacity (low impedance and high capacity)

  7. a chassi ground connection of the power plant it self

  8. a heavy gauge ground out put that can of used, complement traditional mains grounding with a grounding rod out door. Preferably of silver material.

Why?
A) We all know that a power plant is affected of the quality of the power up stream

B) We all know that a power plant is itself affected by DC even if it has a dc-blocker aspect built in

C) A power plant that is chassi grounded via a grounding box sounds better

D) Digital and analogue sources that are signal and chassi grounded usually sounds better

E) A power plant is presently not the most silent power cleaning solution available. The background can be lower.

F) A power plant makes sound better and more romantic and liquid, but do not better late night listening during daytime.

What’s the point?
G) By making the performance capacity of the power plant better than present P20, one will be able to fix most power issues a power plant do not presently address or handles mediocre, without providing a lesser power plant capacity than a present P20. Only more improvements will be made. They higher capacity compensates for the added up stream filtering etc.

H) people need a one stop solution. With approx 10 different problems affecting power quality very few people understand what they need to address. With no manufacturer to solve most problems at the same time, people end up with a lottery if a power plant, Niagara or other solution solves the problem.

I) PS Audio have used power plant marketing communication promising customers to have the same new quality of power as if very close to a power plant. That’s correct in terms of voltage and sine wave but not at all in terms of mains noice coming from industries and neighbours, and not at all tru regarding the air borne and cable borne noice or even the noice created by our Hifi equipment.

Trying to solve 9/10 power issues without loosing the great performance of a present P20 would be a game changer.

When used with Hifi that isolates better between equipment maybe finally people can shift focus to music instead of power.

I do know that one engineering solution might be a compromise and that it can be tough to implement all of it in the same unit. But… if the end customers performance are the target, then maybe a battery of capacitors between some stages can solve a few things. Others have got better electrical engineering knowledge than me (I’m just a demanding user).

Companies like to sell more gear. Why not put it all in the same device? Look at Isotek. Even if you by 3 gear and use 3 great cables you will not have all kind of common power issues solved (but mearly half of ‘em)

I once noticed a company that set out to make one of the worlds top 5 amplifiers to be sold at a very low price… (BHK vision).

A power plant is an amplifier and the 1 bit tech in the power plants made by the world leader of high end audio power regenerators should be able to do it…

If we are lucky, it’s already in the 2024 pipe line but odds are that no improvement if the P20 is yet planned.

Q: Thoughts?

Are PS Audio up to the task?

As a former product analyst I actually think PS Audio needs to launch such a product on the market or launch a battery based solution.

Thoughts?

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Sounds like you a dreaming. It would be unaffordable. The P15 that powers my whole system makes a major improvement in the sound quality without breaking the bank.

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True! It also works really fine in my setup.
However, I can see the point of oceanrower. There’s always the next best thing, although maybe less people wil be able to afford it. So, don’t kill the baby by throwing away the bath water. At least, not just yet.

You might ask: what would that dream machine actually cost? If PS Audio would think of that as too high a price, then it’s unlike to market anyway.

Besides, isn’t this a time for reflection and dreaming into a new future and best wishes? :wink:

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I love the romantic liquid voices of the P15, but it do not address all kind of power issues.

Many of my suggestions are very inexpensive, like the pre transformer dc-blocking, sine wave rebalancer and grounding system.

To implement my suggested grounding solutions separate from a power plant (which makes things more complicated) are almost free.

Puritan sells it for USD 200 and makes a profit. It’s more inexpensive if you do not have a hifi-marketing-package and some DIY makes it almost for free. That said some famous companies demands 3000-5000 USD for a grounding solution a handy person can make almost for free.

As I mentioned in another thread, the battery used in StromTank 1000 is the same as in a Tesla and can be had for less than USD 100 (for a manufacturer for the same capacity as in the smallest StronTank).

Companies would like to make a profit and I personally would like companies to make a profit. But I also look at costs and prices for similar tech in other business than the Hifi-business, and as I value competition more than one single company, there is definitely the time for a company in the Hifi industry to manufacture a really good power solution that solves most problems.

From my point of view, it could be done at a lower cost than present P15 but I would be willing to pay 1,25 x the cost of a present P20 price.

Today I have more power cleaning related gear and cables than the stereo have got and I still have not addressed half of the power issues a modern day house have.

So, respectfully, It need. It be expensive and I’m not dreaming. Just awaiting next gen product at next gen pricing.

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Assuming your list has sense, point by point, it would also make sense putting a new PSA unit in front of a regenerator, able to manage those issues. Especially if ground and noise before the regenerator is the focus.
A sort of power/ground AirLens, so to speak.
It would be easier to market this unit as add on to actual range P20/P15/P12 at a more affordable price.

Just dreaming…

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Puritans power cleaning costs 1/3 of Isoteks (Puritan 156 vs Sigmas/Syncro and more) and Puritans grounding costs 1/20 of Nordost.

If you walk into an electrical component shop you cut the price much much more.

So it’s do able.

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Interesting thought.

Audioquest Storm power cables are built to try to push mains ground noice in one direction. Almost no power cleaner on the market cleans the incoming ground. A stereo is left open to all neighbors and industries noice. The mains ground noice have got a high way right into a stereo….

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Another silly idea. Having a dedicated line from the external of the house that goes into a dedicated panel (from where 5 dedicated lines go to the wall sockets of the system), is there a way to clean the current BEFORE the panel?

A machine able to filter/clean the circuit “upstream” the panel, so without schuko plugs/sockets but wire connected. A sort of pass through the mains line. Something to be installed by a professional electrician, of course.

  1. By code in Italy we must use only 1 ground, shared with the circuit of the house (and consequently with the neighbors). If you want a second ground rod in your garden, this must be connected, by law, to the main ground circuit. It means that even a dedicated panel for audio is necessarily connected to the ground of the rest of the house. Ground is dirty…
  2. Having DC polluting the circuit in general and ground in particular, a device put before the dedicated panel should clean the current going IN and enabling a DC free current going OUT the panel. Being a dedicated audio panel I suppose that downstream the current can’t be polluted by other devices, feeding only audio gear plugged into regenerators or conditioners.

In that way the last meter from each dedicated socket could be managed by P20/P15 regens working at their best (low impedance - perfect sine wave - etc) without the risk of ground/DC issues.

This device shouldn’t act as a traditional UPS, that can create other problems, but simply act as a DC/ground cleaner tool of the mains. The current flow must be unaltered in order to keep the power at its best.

Does already exist or even would make sense?

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It would be very interesting to hear what the technical gurus of PS Audio with deep knowledge of power and power cleaning tech, have to say… regarding this “let’s design the all in one best in class suitable for most power issues… attempt of a design”

The end customer would like to have it all, not having to deal with many different gear and cables. So please make a technical answer on what’s a proper 2030 version, and not an answer focused on “let’s sell more gear and make many boxes” or “different customers have got different power and needs”.

The assumption is that the customers can not by them selves understand, or deal, with all kinds of power problems. Let’s make an audiophile one box high end solution (that we all want the next version of P15 and P20 to be).

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Nope. The PS Audio P300 was on the market some years before Isotek was even founded.

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Thanks, Elk. Sometimes these things get lost and I appreciate you correcting Steven. In fact, we launched in 1997 and were the first. I think Accuphase might have been the second.

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None of this changes the fact PS Audio was first. :slight_smile:

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Thank you all…

… but Isotek has never filtered or removed noice from incoming mains ground and and has never been into grounding signal ground.

It’s true they have their own low capacity power regenerator but the company and its product line is based upon filtering components separate from each other (and star earthing) later complemented by DC-blocking. You will have to get 3 devices from them… and still only Adress 1/2 to 2/3 of the modern day high end demands mention in this threads first post.

A PS Audio P20 is one of the better products out there as stable voltage and low impedance are very important. Isotek Nova have got filtering and DC, a Niagara 7000 have got filtering, dc-blocking and their own power cell but frankly, the modern day needs something like a Puritan 156 and PS Audio P20 at the same time…

Most people need something that fixes all power issues. How many people are even aware of the amount of noice coming all the way into the electronics via the safety ground? It’s like a high way of neighborhood noice…

The more one really look at all different kind of power problems and power noice problems … one realizes that present market do not provide a product where the average well off audiophile can buy a product that solves all problems.

You can pay a lot and adress 2/3 of the problems but if you are unlucky, that last 1/3 is what you should have addressed.

A wife friendly product would make sure that you didn’t have to have 3 boxes and 3 extra power cables (or 10 more for signal and chassi ground)

There is a lot of margin to calculate with. All that cables and extra boxes costs a lot. A manufacturer could use that to build a better all in one product to start with…

PS Audio is the one best suited to launching “what I called the P25”…

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Mmm… as I already said, add to this wish list of features also a display able to show values IN and OUT of how Earth is Clean (like common meters) and which % (if makes sense) of DC is present.

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I am addressing only your erroneus assertion Isotek marketed a regenerator before PS Audio. This is untrue.

The PS Audio P300 was on the market 5 years before Isotek was even founded.

No matter how many words you type. :slight_smile:

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I’ll bet you think you’re getting thru, don’t you?

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rofl

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I’m missing all the Steven comments. But not very much.

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They are hard not to miss, like quick sand.

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Raising the flag for Britain again …

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