For those having software update issues, what size SD card are you using and have you tried a different SD card?
And again, there is another catch. The size of the SD card, the way it has been formatted, whether it was ejected properly after the update files were copied to it, which previous software version you were updating from, and whether that was a force load version or not, whether you were hopping on your left leg or right leg whilst the update was running. The process is broken.
Brodric and elk - since one of the things about Forums is that you end up getting many/most of your impressions from people who have issues (or at least from those with strong opinions vs. the “silent majority” (?) of generally happy/not pissed off folks…“worked for me” is not a post most feel compelled to make unless a lot of posts are nay saying, nor is it exciting) - so I thought I would mention that I had the weird upgrade issues with Huron, and so had taken it to be “one of those things” you have to deal with to get the free upgrade. It was particularly irksome at the time as, once I managed to get it working, I had problems with the sound of Huron that did not seem to be shared by many.
I made a number of modifications in my system and speaker locations, etc. to get it to work for me, and got used to it.
On the other hand, for me, Redcloud upgraded easily and sounded great (and to me, revealed/reinforced what I hadn’t liked about Huron).
I am certain the vast majority have had zero issues, a very small percentage indicate they have had a problem. I wish I had a solution for those with an issue. There is a cause, but what it is remains mysterious.
And nothing Magico in the best speakers list. Unbelievable.
It’s not for lack of trying. We have tried to have conversations with Alon and get in line for a review sample. Alon makes great products but I guess he is a bit stand-offish to some. Perhaps its his IDF background. But I am making inroads at Magico.
Funny, I just helped my new friend Jimmy install some S3 Mark IIs. He is running them with a DS into Mark Levinson’s latest monoblocks (which weigh a ton!). Sounds amazing even though his DS is far from broken in, maybe 200 hour mark. These are impressive speakers. Ted Denny at Synergistic Research is also a huge fan of the Magicos and uses M3 in his factory’s reference listening room.
Wow, I read you also reviewed a 34k Lampizator DAC…
While I’d really be interested in which direction such a DAC sounds in comparison, for me personally the DS DAC/Bridge combo is nominated for Best Buy award since it appeared.
And what your mag answered to this question is about what I‘d guess:
I have been listening to a lot of uber-expensive DACs lately. I honestly believe the DS with Redcloud is right in this league. Esoteric and MSB are terrific, dCS also. I need a bit more experience with the Playback Designs DACs but knowing Andreas they are probable very good. Lampi is superb but definitely adds a bit of that tube warmth on the output stage.
This year when I had to choose my absolute favorites of the year, I had chosen the Empire Ears Zeus Adel IEMs, Synergistic Research PowerCell, and DS with Huron but my overall pick was the Empire Ears, in my opinion the best IEM on the market. Then Redcloud came out and I was absolutely floored. I put in my vote for Product of the Year for DS Redcloud. Two other writers also felt Redcloud was a breakthrough level of resolution for the DirectStream.
Redcloud is a stunning achievement but I have no doubt that Ted will refine it even further.
Brodricj brings up a valid point. I hate to be critical of PS Audio because I think they are so awesome. Their products are awesome. Their customer service and communication with end users on this forum are awesome. But I think constructive criticism is warranted.
One of the failings I have noticed with the PWT and the DSDAC has been in the area of the user interface. Lots of little quirks in that regard. But this one is a biggie. For being a modern internet-connected device, the firmware update process is ridiculously kludgy. It should be as simple as Brodricj described with his esoteric. Updating my Oppo DVD players or my Marantz Surround processor is painlessly simple and just works, every time. No hassles. PS Audio really needs to step up their game in this area. If they want us to buy into the idea that they can program a user friendly interface for something as complex as a music streamer (Octave), they need to sort this out because they really aren’t inspiring confidence with their current update procedures for these players and DACs.
I have only one quibble with the Memory Player. It is a bit difficult on DVD-Audio and Bluray discs. I am sure the PS Audio team is working to fix this.
I would have to agree with Lee. Our upgrade process is the weak link in the system and one our director of engineering is going to revamp. But it takes time. But it will happen.
If it makes you feel any better, I had 3 other DACs ($2-$6K price range) that were upgraded by the manufacturers this year (upgrading to the new Sabre chip). All required return to the factory for the upgrade. In 2 cases the current DAC was upgraded for $1K or more, and in one case they simply gave me a good trade-in price. I have a DAC from another very well regarded manufacturer that used to require downloading a file, ripping it to a CD (had to be done bit perfect, so not every ripper worked), and then playing the CD from the transport to the DAC to upgrade the firmware.
So while PSA may not be as easy as an iPhone, it is ahead of a lot of the pack of DAC manufacturers. BTW, I had an Esoteric K-01 SACD player and the one and only firmware update they provided had to be done via USB stick, IIRC. So updating over the network is a new trick for Esoteric and only available on their latest networked gear. In fact, when they came out with the K-01X, my only option was return to the factory, pay $3000, and get the upgrade for the internal DAC but didn’t get it to full X specs. Needless to say, the K-01 immediately lost a ton of resale value and has been replaced by the DSD and DMP.
I have been listening to a lot of uber-expensive DACs lately. I honestly believe the DS with Redcloud is right in this league. Esoteric and MSB are terrific, dCS also. I need a bit more experience with the Playback Designs DACs but knowing Andreas they are probable very good. Lampi is superb but definitely adds a bit of that tube warmth on the output stage.
This year when I had to choose my absolute favorites of the year, I had chosen the Empire Ears Zeus Adel IEMs, Synergistic Research PowerCell, and DS with Huron but my overall pick was the Empire Ears, in my opinion the best IEM on the market. Then Redcloud came out and I was absolutely floored. I put in my vote for Product of the Year for DS Redcloud. Two other writers also felt Redcloud was a breakthrough level of resolution for the DirectStream.
Redcloud is a stunning achievement but I have no doubt that Ted will refine it even further.
Yes, that’s good to have confirmed by someone who has experience with such high price DAC‘s as I really would further improve everything else including room, AC etc. first before I’d see serious need of upgrading the DS after Redcloud. I keep on being fascinated by the music and the variety of experiences within the recordings. It’s still a wow experience every evening I’m listening, so although I have ideas where it still might improve, I could easily live with this DAC now as long as it’s given.
I think reviews of those firmwares don’t really transport how this DAC changed after it’s first appearance. People should know the DS customers really got kind of a completely improved new DAC for free since the last few firmwares. I wouldn’t have expected more from any much higher priced DAC of a similar tonal characteristic. It must have clearly jumped over most competitors of its early days, even if of a noticeably higher price range. Reading an old review and some firmware reviews wouldn’t cover this extent.
And I’m thankful, PSA offers this even if the upgrade process might be a little fussy for some. Others might have gone the safe way and avoid the add. hassle and support work until it’s perfected and probably attached with costs. As Avadia I think with the experience PSA will make with Octave and (due to the involved customer library data) its demand on quality assurance also of processes, things will improve. Even now in the rare case when I had a problem, support was immediate and with a direct solution on hand.
…So updating over the network is a new trick for Esoteric and only available on their latest networked gear. In fact, when they came out with the K-01X, my only option was return to the factory, pay $3000, and get the upgrade for the internal DAC but didn’t get it to full X specs. Needless to say, the K-01 immediately lost a ton of resale value and has been replaced by the DSD and DMP.
I'm glad I bought the N-01 and not the K-01X.
I’m interested in your opinion how the $20K Esoteric spinner measures up against the much cheaper DMP, because I’m contemplating doing the opposite.
I would have to agree with Lee. Our upgrade process is the weak link in the system and one our director of engineering is going to revamp. But it takes time. But it will happen.
Paul, I don’t have any problem with your upgrade process (via SD card) since I don’t have my system connected to my internet. That would involve a long, unsightly ethernet cable or another internet modem neither of which I’m willing to put up with. The next choice would be to put a wireless capability into the DSD or DSJ which would raise the cost.
The SD process is simple: insert a properly formatted SD card into my computer, download the files and extract them, eject the SD card (ejecting avoids corruption) and insert it into the turned off DSD and turn the DSD on. (or spend $29 and get the loaded card from you) The whole process takes around 5-10 minutes max–not an issue considering it’s done once or twice a year.
If you do decide to do the ‘better’ ethernet route, please keep the SD card as an option
I, too, prefer the SD card approach, although I have a hard-wired Internet connection for my system.
Fortunately, very few have a problem with the current approach. My suspicion is if it was changed to Internet based, a different few would have issues. No matter what a manufacturer does, there will always be a failure rate.
I, too, prefer the SD card approach, although I have a hard-wired Internet connection for my system.
Fortunately, very few have a problem with the current approach. My suspicion is if it was changed to Internet based, a different few would have issues. No matter what a manufacturer does, there will always be a failure rate.
I totally agree with Elk, the majority of DSD dac owner out there would have no problem with upgrading the firmware including me. I had purchased the PWD dac since its first iteration then upgraded to PWD dac mkii kit, then DSD dac kit. I went through as many firmware upgrades as PSaudio has provided for the PWD DAC & DirectStream DAC without any hiccups whatsoever.
I think the SD card upgrade approach is simple and effective ( it is no different to handling the floppy disc of the 80’ era ).
Like Jack43 has mentioned, please keep that SD card.
I’ve had two PerfectWave DAC MKII’s and two Directstream units here and have updated the firmware on these 4 units probably two-dozen times between them and never once have I had an update fail. Maybe I’m just lucky?
I would love to know whether most of these failed upgrades are hardware/software malfunction or end-user error. I understand there is a very slight learning curve with formatting the card and dragging and dropping the update files onto the SD card (and I say slight because this is pretty basic computer stuff), so it would be interesting to see if these steps are simply a bit over most of these peoples’ heads or if it is indeed an issue with the PS Audio hardware. I realize both of these are occurring, I just want to see what the ratio is. The DSJr seems more susceptible to update problems. That’s just judging from the amount of complaints I’ve personally seen on the forum. Other than a network update process (which I would assume is unlikely due to the DS Sr. not having a dedicated RJ45 port), I don’t know how much easier it can get than dragging files onto a properly formatted SD card. What other option would PS Audio have with currently selling products?
I have in my possession several products that are max a couple of years old.
All of them upgrades effortless over Internet. If there is a digital product currently in the pipeline without a network upgrade I would say it resembles a relic of the past.
I’ve had two PerfectWave DAC MKII’s and two Directstream units here and have updated the firmware on these 4 units probably two-dozen times between them and never once have I had an update fail. Maybe I’m just lucky?
I would love to know whether most of these failed upgrades are hardware/software malfunction or end-user error. I understand there is a very slight learning curve with formatting the card and dragging and dropping the update files onto the SD card (and I say slight because this is pretty basic computer stuff), so it would be interesting to see if these steps are simply a bit over most of these peoples’ heads or if it is indeed an issue with the PS Audio hardware. I realize both of these are occurring, I just want to see what the ratio is. The DSJr seems more susceptible to update problems. That’s just judging from the amount of complaints I’ve personally seen on the forum. Other than a network update process (which I would assume is unlikely due to the DS Sr. not having a dedicated RJ45 port), I don’t know how much easier it can get than dragging files onto a properly formatted SD card. What other option would PS Audio have with currently selling products?
I fully agree with you.. How can P S Audio make it any easier to update the DS - O/S ? It is very straight-forward and easy to do with the DS ! 'Possibly corrupted cards and / or pulling the card without closing it off' ? Personally - I always use a brand-new SD card that's properly formatted - only because I like to keep the earlier version(s).. Daft I know - but just me !! I can't ever see me wanting to go back to the Torrey's beta's ! Although I have never had any problems loading the files to both my DS boxes: - I have had issues with one DS sounding crap after updates which necessitated the rigmarole of loading an earlier version, etc... Even the mighty Ted couldn't give a definitive reason why and he is a digital deity .. "Gremlins in the machine" ?! But it isn't a big hassle and the rewards are truly great.. Redcloud is a magnificent tour de force.............
I fully agree with you.. How can P S Audio make it any easier to update the DS - O/S ?
Really? You have to ask this question? Ok, let’s compare...
To update the PS Audio DS DAC, you have to:
Keep up with the PS Audio forums, so you even know when an update has been released.
Purchase an SD card (or access the one currently in the machine).
Insert the SD card in a computer and format it (Ted says you need to format in exfat 16, but my Mac and my SD card formatter program only let me format exfat 32, but anyway…).
Then manually download the files on your computer and copy to the SD card and (of course) appropriately eject the card from the computer.
Access the back of the DS DAC to insert the card (no easy feat in some setups) and turn on the machine to begin the update (which obviously still doesn’t work properly for some number of people for whatever reason, based on reports).
In contrast, the last time I upgraded the firmware on my Marantz surround processor, the steps were:
Turned on the machine and a message popped up informing of a firmware update and asking if I would like to proceed.
Hit “Yes” button.
The machine downloads the software via Ethernet, loads it, and gives a message confirming the update has been accomplished.
If you can’t understand the difference in ease of use for the end user of these two different upgrade protocols, then I just don’t know what to say…
