I heard them as well at axpona. I thought given show conditions they sounded decent. I didn’t get to spend that much time in there. One thing I ‘thought??’ Was that it seemed like I could pick out the drivers at times. I might be making that up as well given conditions. Interested to see them now.
I had a similar experience at Axpona with the speaker. Given less than ideal show conditions, it had reasonably good resolution and imaging but the bass was not in step. Be that as it may, I was encouraged that the internal DSP development would address this and smooth out the room nodes that most real world rooms (including mine)
have. Alas, it ain’t happening. I love a good passive system with tried and true drivers and design but I my recent experience with active systems with integral DSP check a lot of boxes for me.
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I read and heard about the diverging perception of the prototype‘s sound quality at RMAF or was it AXPONA or both, too before. Yes it was show conditions, but somewhere there lies my only point of slight disappointment, that (not including the last passive radiator type) meanwhile 3 very different incarnations of the speaker idea were pre-marketed as (not to take literally) „representing the currently hottest s**t and killing most everything around including monsters like the IRS“ and at the end at least partly disappointed a certain percentage of possibly not upmost experienced and critical listeners (while certainly many others were excited). I guess some nations are more used to hyperbole than others, but this might also just be a personal thing.
As I said before, the changing strategies over time for me are part of a strange but possible development process which (just as the listening to an prototype) usually just takes place purely internal, not public, and where everyone of us can decide to enjoy the ride or not. I found it interesting and still do. Looking forward to possibly some time have the chance to hear how the final product sounds.
I am with you but, I gotta add, that one of the reasons we dumped the servo and DSP was precisely because of how well Chris was able to integrate the passive bass with his new woofer designs: much faster, much more in synch. We had a major shootout between the DSP, the servo, the servo and DSP, and his passive work and the passives won out. Handily. Can’t wait for an opportunity to share with you and the world how well this works.
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Yes, the final proof of the pudding is in how it sounds. It has been a long and circuitous journey and I hope it exceeds expectations. I hope you can pull some of the curtain back on recent changes and results and provide what it is projected to look like.
I will. Promise. I just want to get settled in and get the actual speakers here first. All we now have is the 3D renderings.
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Looking forward to seeing and hearing the new design. Really miss not being able to follow along as the design develops, but hope you an tell the story at the end when it is final. This is Good Stuff!
Yes they have to sound good, but if such large speakers don’t look good I will never get approval from my CFO, neither would I want them in my living room myself.
Problem is that our tastes seem to differ.
I did like how the FR30’s looked.
While I have no particular knowledge or experience with DSP or servo woofers, I find it telling that there aren’t that many examples of these technologies in the market place. Perhaps a sweeping generalization, but almost all high end speakers are pretty straight forward with most having simple cone drivers and a few with panels (e.g., electrostatic or planar magnetic), and almost all being used with analog crossovers. I’m sure there are lots of companies that have played with DSP or servos, but the old way of doing things still sounds the best. Some day I think DSP will be much more common, not so sure about servos. I applaud PS Audio for trying to make DSP and servo woofers work, but highest sound quality is the goal, not using “new” technology (note: “new” in this case is relative).
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It just depends on what your needs are. If you do not live in a confined space you probably don’t need to look further.
But there are many audio enthousiasts and audiophiles that live in a truly confined space. For me, a Music enthousiast living in a confined space I can not befriend with plastering my living space with large speakers in the middle of the room. Than add, according to Paul’s videos, behemoth subwoofers irrespective of the size of the main speakers plus equally large size amps.
I don’t mind a large speaker as for a good bass and close to the wall positioning volume (space) and a closed cabinet is still preferred.
Active or semi active is the way forward for me to eliminate the amount of boxes in the room yet keeping high SQ.
Perhaps you missed it, but in the last years there is an ongoing trend in high end active and semi active speakers that get extremely positive reviews.
- Avantgarde Acoustics
- Bang & Olufsen
- Buchardt Audio
- Backes & Müller
- Rowen
- Abacus
- Quadral
- Canton
- Dutch & Dutch
- Grimm Audio
- Kii
- Linn
- ELAC
- etc. etc.
Some of them successfully in the active speakers for very long time.
I trust active and passive can sound equally good in the right system. It’s not about SQ anymore but about living style.
With moving away from semi active PS Audio broke their promise to develop speakers that adjust to room conditions as distance to the back wall. So to people to whom that matters a lot they should look elsewhere, I guess the message is.
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Some markets are more interested in active than others. here in Europe I’d say the German market (e.g. with Adam) is well advanced. here in the UK it’s mainly the pro/studio market that are active. The UK maker, PMC, used to use analogue active crossovers in their main studio range but recently moved to digital active crossovers. Coming back to Germany, I recently noticed that a German company have taken over Velodyne Acoustics. I have a DD18+ for home cinema usage - it’s a phenominal bit of kit with a 18" driver that’s servo controlled. My main system uses PMC speakers but with a DEQX digital crossover and Direcstreams as dacs.
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I have heard Velodyne, DD10+ they are the benchmark in SUB,s. Even that small one went down to sub frequencies.
With my Yamaha MSP5 and ELAC Navi’s bookshelf’s it sounded phenomenal.
Active again small enough for confined space.
Do you know which company took over Velodyne?
In Germany there’s also Backes & Mueller, but in general I’d say active speakers are as rare as everywhere. And quickly I don’t know a manufacturer whom I’d call great performing high end.
For some good ain’t just good enough. I trust that any speaker from the manufacturers in the list above sounds really good and to my opinion high end.
If you don’t know or like active that doesn’t mean it’s not high end.
High is no defined level either, so I respect your personal opinion.
Although I find the statement arrogant and it puts a lot of young and new enthousiasts off. The statement unfortunately confirms the cliche this hobby carries around, while I consider the cliche absolutely unnecessary.
The DD10+ are just awesome. Looking for a used pair for some time. But no one is selling theirs…
Velodyne got acquired by https://www.audio-reference.de/
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I accept that and should have put this in relation or explained what I mean. Might do this later or leave it like that.
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I did not say there weren’t any, just inferred they are not that prevalent. Several of the brands you mention I have not heard of, I’m thinking they may be European based. I have heard the Kii 3 and was very impressed with what it could do, it seemed an excellent choice for a small room like mine, but it would be a major change in my system, something I’m hesitant to try.
I’m in the US and base my comments on what we can get here. Admittedly, US living quarters are generally larger than our European counterparts so the need for room correction is slightly less. I say slightly since almost all rooms have some issues, but DSP is not necessarily the best answer to those issues. Which gets me to my next point …
I don’t recall Paul ever promising to provide any particular feature. If he actually said promise, please provide the quote. My interpretation of his design goal is to provide the best sounding speaker he can, an “IRS killer” he said. My point was he came to the conclusion that DSP and servos were not the path for PS Audio to the best sound. No promise broken as I see it.
That’s OK. I would be interested in the context you meant it.
Paul spent a couple of Videos on the room adjustment feature he, at that time considered important and that it was PS Audio’s intent to solve that issue.
In the meanwhile some of the brands I mentioned managed to master that problem while PS Audio has abandoned that idea.
Those video’s were broadcasted around the time of PS Audio’s relocation and when the Speaker design journey started.
I trust the FR80 will sound great in that large room in which the BHK’s and additional Subwoofers don’t dominate the atmosphere.
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Those brands feel they did the best they can at this point in time to solve a problem that is important to them. I can’t say they didn’t accomplish that goal. Paul tried to solve the problem and, ultimately, was not satisfied with the results. Paul placed overall sound quality above room insensitivity. It was his choice. As you point out there are other companies that make a speaker better suited to your needs, I would suggest you set your sights on one of those.
PS Audio makes wonderful electronics, I have a complete system of them, but speakers are another kettle of fish entirely. I have heard many high end speakers that sounded dreadful, but someone thought it was their best effort. Not me. My point is there is a wide range of available options, if you don’t like what a particular brand/model does, either in actual listening or on paper, by all means move on to something else. I’m a loyal PS Audio customer, but I try not to be blinded by the light.
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