Torreys Beta Testers Wanted. Apply within.

Audio Components DACs
61

Tech:

Just installed Torreys. Install did go ok, however there was little indication that it was (no visual feedback that the process was actually happening, the status bar never moved). Prior to loading I was using a coax input, so I tried that first. I noticed all inputs showed receiving a signal, however their status showed “red” on the display. Oddly, although volume indicated “100” on the display as soon as I hit volume up coax output turned on.

SQ:

Having only tested coax thus far I can only review SQ for said input. What struck me straight away was what can only be described at a “blacker” background. Mid bass is better, lows seem lower, sound stage is much more “in the room” than it was with the previous version. One odd thing, volume is lower overall, or at least seems to be. So far I would say this is a solid improvement! A few bugs, but nothing significant. And the sound is… bliss.

Update: Played a few albums using from Tidal BubbleUPnP across bridge II. No technical issues connecting or with playback, and sound quality was a clear upgrade over Yale in every respect I can possibly think of. May I keep it please?!

62

After playing Tidal/Bubble/Bridge for a few hours, I just noticed that the display has become corrupted.

On the display, I see a horizontal line of ten character-sized white rectangles. It overlays the blue sine-wave on the Bridge display. They start one line down from the top, and the line ends at the right edge of the display.

So I switched to USB input, and the line of rectangles went away, and did not return when I switched back to BridgeII. Yet.

63

I got this problem in display

64

Installed Torreys without any glitches beyond the audio being muted on completion with red indicator active on screen. Un-muting worked first go and music played. As noted by others, DSD (DoP) channels are swapped left/right.

My DS has no bridge. USB playback of up to 192kHz PCM and 1xDoP from Squeezebox Touch, and PCM direct from iPad Pro with Lightning-to-USB adaptor have both been generally reliable. Toslink playback of PCM also worked with no issues.

Possible beta issue observed (without going back to Yale and comparing its behaviour)… playing an album of 1xDSD via DoP from SBT on USB, skipping to next track during playback has moderate level audible glitches for a fraction of a second.

The changes to the audio quality in Torreys are significant, at least in my system. I’m very sad to say that my beloved Toslink input has been mostly left in the dust by USB in this release. I still get a slight edginess from USB (which I think is caused by electrical noise introduced by the SBT) but the resolution, imaging, depth and coherence that improves with every reduction in jitter is now way better than what I’m getting from the optical input.

I love the treble in Torreys. Both PCM and DSD have an increased openness but DSD has particularly benefited. It’s like the difference between a chalkboard that has been wiped with a duster and one which has been cleaned with a wet cloth. The Seminole Star album used to disappoint me technically with a lack of shine and air which I knew would have been present in the studio. With Torreys those clean edged harmonics and open breaths are finally here with me too, and the music is that much more engaging as a result.

There’s an overall increase in resolution regardless of what you’re playing. So much so, it can be disconcerting. Like seeing the Hobbit movie in 5K high frame rate for the first time kind of disconcerting. Yes, you hear more of the music, the performance. But you also hear more of the recording, the studio or venue itself, the artefacts of production, the tick of a metronome. If you thought the ambience of Diana Krall’s live “Case of You” was too much before, this could be overwhelming now.

Personally I love it. It’s exactly what I want from a DAC. I’m sure others will disagree.

Increased resolution and openness goes hand in hand with improved soundstage and imaging precision. Best I’ve ever heard in my system. The usual words apply… string quartets in the room with you, in front/behind/between/beyond the speakers etc. Just obviously better than Yale in that respect.

And as I think Ted said, these kinds of improvements always benefit the bass too. “The Way We Were” album from singer Umi is a bunch of jazz standards with just a double bass and an electric (jazz) guitar as accompaniment. (My Mum says Umi sounds like Nina Simone, if that helps you get the picture.) On the track “This Masquerade” the bass opens solo with a syncopated rhythm involving a skipped first beat every couple of bars. The player doesn’t pluck the string on that beat but (s)he does firmly place, almost strike, their thumb onto the bottom string at that moment. The touch carries through the bridge into the body of the instrument and produces a deep, dull, quiet “thud” kind of sound with just a hint of the string’s fundamental harmonic. On Yale and earlier releases I could detect that sound if I was listening carefully and turned the volume up. In Torreys, the energy seems to be more coherently focused in time and that physical expression of the body of the double bass is just there as part of the music.

Recordings are being so transparently reproduced down the interconnects between my DS and my amp that I’m now uncomfortably aware of some of the limitations of my system. There’s a bit of midrange congestion I hadn’t noticed before, which I suspect is the amp’s doing. The frequency floor of my 2-way speakers is now distressingly obvious as basslines throw themselves downwards with superbly energetic integrity before suddenly falling off a cliff into nowhere. It’s a nice “problem” to have, I suppose.

Thanks, PS Audio team – the DS DAC is not an “inexpensive” item by most household standards but I am increasingly delighted with my investment in it.

65

Torreys loaded fine (similarly like already reported = no progress bar movement during fw upgrade boot, then normal startup with mute enabled (if this means the mute is enabled during the boot it is good to protect speakers)).

Sound coming from Aries connected to USB was OK immediately.

Bridge worked fine from first moment with PlugPlayer (UPnP).

Bridge had no sound/progress when streamed via the BubbleUPnP server on my Qnap (OpenHome) - had to restart the BubbleUPnP server and from that point got it working fine.

SQ tests will follow soon.

66

I loaded Torrys this evening. And I also encountered the muting issue on boot, as expected.

But what has followed is rather astonishing. I have not done any exhaustive side by side comparisons yet. But when simply listening to a handful of recordings that I know fairly well, I find myself completely taken aback.

I’m hearing some detail in some recordings that I’ve never heard before. I’m hearing the most amazing soundstage I have ever heard on my system. I’m hearing depth so deep it blows my mind. I’m hearing amazing transparency. On some recordings the musicians sound like they are sitting in front of my speakers.

The sound quality is just mind-blowing. I didn’t think that digital was capable of this level of performance. And I’m not even listening through my best amp at the moment.

So far I’ve listened to a smattering of redbook CDs, HDCDs (fully decoded), and SACDs (as DSD) via my Oppo 103 with a Vanity HD Card. The sound is incredible. I will do more listening this weekend, as well as testing other connection configurations, and I’ll load Yale so that I can see how it compares. Although I doubt that I will want to listen to it for very long after hearing Torrys.

So Ted I must say: Congratulations!!! This version might be the build which finally prys me away from 1.21.

67

I can only reiterate what I have said previously and concur with dvorak’s findings… The high frequencies are truly excellent; greatly improved insight, detailing, with much improved positioning and location within the soundstage, etc. which manifests throughout the frequency range. It is hard to credit I am only playing Redbook CDs. I have two DS so very easy to switch between - no rebooting between FW’s… Torreys qualities over Yale are dramatic… Great work from Ted and the team…

68

[large nested quotes removed]

I’m not using USB. Setup is JRiver21 > Bridge II > XLR into BHK 250. Still no luck with single DSD files (.dsf) or SACD ISOs. When I switch back to YALE all DSDs play perfect. Going through the posts I also see other users that have issues with DSD and Bridge II.

If I try to play a DSD file on Torreys - which does not work - there is also no sound afterwards on any PCM file. I have to reboot to be able to play PCM again which is fine on all sample rates.

69

yale was the firmware that most of us were most familiar with. i took about 9 months or more for torreys to arrive (slight criticism there) i hear it as an evolutionary and welcome change over yale especially in the departments of dynamism, attack and treble performance. before torreys, some found the dsd a round and softer sounding player and, in all fairness, i personally asked for more color and contrast, as well.

coming from a top-end esoteric machine, i had to use more speaker toe-in with the dsd up until now for the treble to sound right with the bite element. i have not played with speaker positioning last night but i am confident with the more refined treble energy, i will be more flexible in terms of toe-in

torreys is a step in the right direction for me. i enjoyed torreys as much as every one else posting their comments in the forum. this is still a directstream dac at heart though and i did not feel as if i brought home a new player.

there is no need to go back to yale and compare, i will keep the torreys and will continue to wish for more explosive dynamics, more solid bass and a wetter midrange with more flow and continuity.

once again, thanks to everyone involved in the development of this unit.

70

To add to my previous post (which was related purely to 44.1kHz files) - later I have tried to play also few high-res tracks (176kHz, DSD via DoP) via the bridge but there was no sound - display on DS shows correct format, track progressbar is moving but there is no sound.

Also the SQ (for 44.1kHz) sounds quite flat to what I have been used with Yale. Like the gear would not be at working temperature yet (however was powered on for 3 hours already and the SQ check was done about 1 hour after DS firmware update/reboot).

Will probably try to reboot the DS to see if that would change anything as I can recall when testing Yale beta I had simmilar strange SQ until next reboot.torreys.JPG

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kckuepper said I'm not using USB. Setup is JRiver21 > Bridge II > XLR into BHK 250. Still no luck with single DSD files (.dsf) or SACD ISOs. When I switch back to YALE all DSDs play perfect. Going through the posts I also see other users that have issues with DSD and Bridge II.

If I try to play a DSD file on Torreys - which does not work - there is also no sound afterwards on any PCM file. I have to reboot to be able to play PCM again which is fine on all sample rates.


A bit more information on the DSD problem with Bridge II:

  1. Reboot

  2. Start playing a PCM file and changed volume to get sound. Played PCM file for a Minute, then I stopped playback.

  3. Selected a single track from an SACD ISO. File showed as DOP 64 and played OK. Switched album to another SACD ISO. File also played OK.

  4. Stopped playback of DSD file and switched to a PCM file. Played OK.

  5. Selected another DSD file from an SACD ISO. Not recognized as DOP and no playback.

  6. Selected another PCM file. Display shows playback indicator and correct sample reate but NO SOUND. Selected another DSD file - NO SOUND.

  7. Reboot and start with #2 above - same result.

72
dvorak said There's a bit of midrange congestion I hadn't noticed before, which I suspect is the amp's doing.
I have said the following in an earlier post:

‘I will look out for holes in the frequency reproduction…’

  • I have this nagging feeling that there exist a slight unbalance in the mid frequency region with Torreys. I wonder if a blacker and noise free background make you believe that something is missing when the tunes just jumps at you from ‘nowhere’ and hit you in the face and that this is the reason for this perception? I have problems justifying this observation so I will revisit it when returning from work.
73

well i wasn’t prepared for this but i must say torreys is a good step up,first absolutely no software installation problems,all ran smooth,all inputs perfect,sound quality was as expected,amazing,everything was more defined and richer,bass was more controlled i think,vocals had a refinement and strings had more presence,cymbals where more metallic and the drums where more fuller,so far i can say its a excellent update,but will add more comments later after a lengthy listening session!!!

74

Ok another update - i had no sound from DS after trying the DSD files. I tried DS reboot - no change, then reboot without SD card - no change (checked to all inputs i have connected: USB, Toslink and bridge) - still no sound.

Then another reboot with SD card (firmware re-loaded during boot), selecting toslink where 44.1 was playing - i have got sound (in total this was 3rd reboot…).

I have noticed that during the no-sound issue, specifically for DSD tracks i was not seeing DoP on DS display but rather 176kHz PCM (may be important).

Now playing PCM and also DSD64 via bridge OK. DSD now shows DoP correctly on the DS display.

75

Paul, @Ted, I wanted to pass along some initial comparisons between Yale and Torreys

Sorry this is going to be a long winded post :wink:

Some background: So far I have been testing only for sound quality differences between the two firmware versions, and have not spent any time playing around with volume, phase, or using BRIDGE II

About my system: HIGHLY OPTIMIZED 2PC audio system using headless Roon Core Server running on W2K12R2 Core Server Mode. That server is running on its own dedicated power line, and on a commercial Libiert double conversion UPS, to ensure that power issues never cause problems. Within my house I have a 48 port HP Curve gigabit switch that is will sustain 96 Gb of throughput, and also has up-link fiber capabilities (gbic connectors). This server and network backbone for my house is in a different area than my audio system. The Roon Server is a dual honed server, with one Intel GB NIC connected to the HP swich, the other Intel GB NIC is connected directly to the DS DAC or Audio PC (either via JPLAY or RoonBRIDGE).

Living up in Canada the basement is my domain - meaning that is where my stereo is ;-).

Now for the Audio PC: Highly regulated battery operated power supply for the PPA V2 USB card and SSD, Intel I5 under-clocked, with no CPU fan. My secret sauce to making this thing sound as good as it does has to do with the internal SATA filtering, EMI/RFI shielding, and damping. Even though there are no internal moving parts, the damping does make a noticeable improvement. Damping inside is constrained layer with a combination of Soundcoat on the base of the chassis as well as Dynamat. Then the chasis is lined with ERS Cloth, and then SATA cables and ICs are lined with 3M material used to shield cellphones. I don’t remember the name but combined this stuff is very effective. The Audio PC has a very expensive over-specified switching supply that has very low ripple (I do not remember the brand now, but ripple is around 10mV which is very good for a computer power supply). The switching power supply powers only the motherboard. The highly regulated battery supply runs the USB and SSD drive. The switching power supply is powered via an MIT ZII cord (which is excellent at filtering noise), and plugged into a PS Audio Soloist on it’s own dedicated AC line, grounded to its own dedicated grounding rod. The Audio PC is connected to the DS DAC with WireWorld’s top of the line Platinum 7 USB cable and ReGen USB reclocker running off of a 12V linear power supply.

Last year I switched to Roon and have not looked back, but I have been using Roon with JPLAY’s 2PC set up. Recently, I felt that the newly released RoonBrige sounded as good as JPLAY without any of the potential reliability issues. That is until the just released (two days ago) build of RoonBridge. I think it has taken a slight step backwards. So back to JPLAY.

Now for the good stuff. I had a chance to listen to Yale and Torreys a couple times yesterday as well as this morning. For those who are tired of listening to my ramble :wink: here is the conclusion: @Ted, @Paul you guys nailed this release from a sound quality perspective!

Music (all music redbook except where indicated):

  • Goldfrapp: Utopia, Hairy Trees
  • Getz / Gilberto: Girl From Ipanema (DSD Rip from SACD)
  • Radiohead: Exit Music
  • U2: Love is Blind
  • Bela Fleck: Let me be the One
  • Tori Amos: Troubles Lament (24/96)
  • Daft Punk: Within (24/88)
So after listing to several tracks on Yale, and then jumping to Torreys and listening to the same playlist the first thing that jumped out was the low-level detail especially around percussion instruments. In all my notes, the following words were used time and time again: Percussion, clarity, and low level detail. That was yesterday afternoon...

This morning:

Going back and forth with the Daft Punk song i noticed the most significant change and here is my observation:

Yale sounds good, that is, until you hear Torreys side by side. In comparison, specifically with the Daft Punk track, Yale sounds flat! The back and mid parts of the sound stage sound compressed together. Put Torreys on and everything is brought into its own space - INCREDIBLE. The second part is with the chimes in this track. Again, with Torreys, the chimes do not sound congested, but real-life like in size and timbre.

I will be listening more over the weekend and adding notes as I observe. But so far, this is an impressive release!

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maniac said Ok another update - i had no sound from DS after trying the DSD files. I tried DS reboot - no change, then reboot without SD card - no change (checked to all inputs i have connected: USB, Toslink and bridge) - still no sound.

Then another reboot with SD card (firmware re-loaded during boot), selecting toslink where 44.1 was playing - i have got sound (in total this was 3rd reboot…).

I have noticed that during the no-sound issue, specifically for DSD tracks i was not seeing DoP on DS display but rather 176kHz PCM (may be important).

Now playing PCM and also DSD64 via bridge OK. DSD now shows DoP correctly on the DS display.


After a reboot - can you start with a DSD64 file and it plays OK ? Does not work for me. I have to start with PCM.

Also once you played DSD64 correctly can you switch to PCM and then to DSD and all plays OK. That is what does not work for me (see my earlier post)

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Exactly. You remove that card because it will try and load the software each time and slow it down. A blank one is fine.

78
Paul McGowan said Exactly. You remove that card because it will try and load the software each time and slow it down. A blank one is fine.
And with no Bridge installed, we just eject the card and keep it safe because we cannot gain any benefit from album art updates....(?)
79

… folks my (and @kckuepper and possibly others) problem is NOT related to SD card

@kckuepper i will try two reboots:after 1st one will play DSD, then PCM

after 1st one will play DSD, then PCM

after 2nd one will play PCM and then DSD

BTW when had no sound i tried to RESET BRIDGE from DS touch panel, however Bridge has not been reset (previously with Yale, when triggered, bridge was immediately reset)

80

Installed Torreys without a hitch. Was muted on startup I believe, but ran from Toslink, Coax and USB with no problems.

All listening so far was from DSD sources via laptop running Audiophile Linux 3.1. The display does not show output as DoP anymore, but as “DSD128” for example. As mentioned above, channels were backwards for DSD sources, which I found a little disconcerting for making comparisons.

Regardless, echoing what has already been said, I heard more resolution top to bottom. It was like low level haze has been transformed into detail. What were background sounds with Yale became recognizable things, like a player inhaling between notes. Easier to localize instruments in space as well, particularly on good recordings like Opus3 DSD128 material (check out Tiny Island).

On the downside for me - and I need more time to investigate this - it seemed that the soundstage was smaller and more distant at equal volume. With Yale I got the sense that I was surrounded by the music, whereas with Torreys the music is clearly more in front of me. Need some more time listening to different material to get a better handle on this.