I am not even vaguely against meters. I am sorry my asking questions made you believe otherwise. (I do not care for touch screens, an interface objection, and an entirely different topic.)
You indicated “My room acoustics are great at about 12 watts.”
Thus I asked What do you do? For example, do you play pink noise and set preamp levels looking at an amp’s meter to see when it reads 12W?
I am simply curious. I have never heard of any one doing anything like this.
You, of course, need not answer.
But a response referencing tachs, HUDs, attitude reference, etc. seemed oddly defensive and unnecessarily a bit insulting/condescending.
I was not trying to be condescending. If it came off that way I apologize.
If using pink noise yes I will set my wat meter output to match my listening level BTW Room Perfect does frequency sweeps then tells you to set volume on preamp to a dB level that optimizes room acoustics.
Not surprisingly the level where the bass sweeps are optimized around 12 watts too So I surmise it is there means of system frequency optimization. You can increase the level and overide the target for listening position. I have tried that and results end up bass shy at lower volumes.
But yesthere seems to be an optimization volume for different rooms that link closely to varying wpc levels for that room’s cubic footage since the DSP system calls for more volume in larger rooms. It would be interesting to know how Lyngdorf sets ip their room measurement algorithms.
I don’t think it is uncanny once your acoustics are optimized a standard WPC level gives one the most balanced sound over the audible frequency spectrum. Which is around 12 watt averages of peaks for my primary listening room. My larger cubic foot bedroom likes more watts to optimize RoomPerfect
Maybe “swings” was the wrong verbiage when describing the 20.7, “dips” may be more appropriate.
From what the gentleman who owns the system was telling me while we where listening the impedance dips to 1.9 ohm at high frequencies to 4.5 ohms at low frequencies, so yes, definitely not a wild swing. Also that they had very low efficiency, I believe he said around 82db
Again, I do not own planers or Electrostatics, I was only passing along an amp that might want to be demoed for the 20.7 as this guys system with the combination of Sanders amps and 20.7’s was producing some seriously good sound at all listening levels
That amp looks like a Nautilus, that brass round thing in the middle must be the depth gauge and those round openings on the top the hatches for the missiles.
But are using an amp’s meters to find this level? Is the “wat meter” to which you refer on an amp?
Using an amp’s output meter in this way is what intrigues me. In my experience, most of us just enjoy watching the levels bounce around and to be amazed how little power is typically being used.
The Audio Research see-through meters are pretty wild. Striking.
Yes my amps WPC meters are visible at listening position. I use level of meters to optimize acoustics and hear details at a comfortable dB I snapped this in low light so it washed out iphone image n the photo. But the needles can be seen and after awhile it is like looking at a clock and by slant you know you are in the acoustic sweet spot. Yes it will play louder to rock concert level and still sound great the mids and highs keep up. I did RTA sweeps and it is consistent. A couple 100 watts though and your drilling 100 plus dB.
And yes i still get huge soundstage depth and 3D imaging behind the speakers despite speakers at wall. The solidity of bass suffers speakers moved forward to you. The speaker designer voiced his cross overs appropriately to get the best bass down to 16 Hz. against the wall. The P20 meters are a more difficult read from listening position than the analog amp meters.
Yeah I sed to use volume knob position in my younger ignorant days and bought a lot of tweeters. Today’s loudness wars are hell so you have to find another way. Now I can afford bigger amps but the sources vary so wildly. It is still a pain to rid a remote but visual reference is faster than auditory to get the soundstage life size and not be hunting up and down.
Long time Audio Research admirer (an ARC preamp has been the heart of my system for the past 27 years - LS2 & LS28), but more than one review of the Ref160M mentioned that the meters were so inaccurate they should be considered decorative only. Haven’t seen any comments one way or the other about the Ref 160S. Agree, they are striking.
Absolute accuracy doesn’t matter that much. Repeatability is important. The listener associated the position of the needle with a certain sound level. Which is also very much depending on the individuals room.
I love VU meters, for decoration and association with sound level.
Even though I don’t have BHK 600 budget, nor space, I put an order in for a NAD M33. it’s touch display, that after set-up will probably never be touched again, does turn into a pair of analog VU meters after displaying the song information for a while. A really nice looking and for me useful feature.
Thanks Jack, yes I finally pulled the trigger on an integrated solution. I got a demo on a pair of Audio Vector speakers and simply was impressed by:
sound quality
look and feel
ease of use
providing nearly all the interfaces I looked for,
The compromise I took was let go of balanced phono input, but the winner is the integrated BluOS streaming function, fully Apple AirPlay compatible allowing we to utilize my current digital music system rather than replacing it.
I can not hide the fact that John Darko and Hans Beekhuyzen did a good sales job with their reviews on the unit too.
I’ll post my experience once the unit is delivered and up and running, May they expect, luckily 2021 though. Than saving a little mor for a pair of VonSchloo L10. Till then I can see how far DIRAC and the Eigentakt amps can improve SQ with my Canon Vento’s.
I once got Rowen speakers (the drivers and acoustic design of the VonSchloo are Rowen), demonstrated when we were starting a family. I couldn’t afford them. But to me they sounded like nothing I had heard before. It looks like I have a chance to go for them now, and the dealer in Luzern who provided me the demo, all that time ago, is still around and a really nice guy. So a dream to come true so to speak after gathering all the enthousiast opinions on this forum and elsewhere.
The Cantons are still great, that whole system goes to my son who started living on his own. I think it’s a nice deal for him too in these challenging times.
The VonSchloo are made from Eternit, a cement / fiber compound. When we studied a group of students had built speakers from concrete. It’s acoustically inert and very good material for speaker enclosures from a sound perspective. The Eternit made VonSchloo’s combine those acoustic properties with normal weight and my personal and my wife’s taste, looks.
Well when it all comes together and sounds as good as a system as it looks then you will be good. Glad you are finally getting to do what you wanted.
I owned a pair of speakers from a small company in Colorado, Green Mountain Audio, that were made out of a similar material and they were almost 50 pound a piece bookshelf speakers.
